Isn't that strange

[Bear]

Got this in the mail today from a friend in oakland ca.


FROM: ASHEVILLE MAGAZINE
See http://newfrontier.com/asheville

We don't get political...too often...but....

Did you know that... we supported Bin Laden and the Taliban for years, and
viewed them as freedom fighters against the Russians?

Isn't that strange?

As late as 1998, the US was paying the salary of every single Taliban
official in Afghanistan?

Isn't that strange?

There is more oil and gas in the Caspian Sea area than in Saudi Arabia,
but you need a pipeline through Afghanistan to get the oil out.

Isn't that strange?

UNOCAL, a giant American Oil conglomerate, wanted to build a 1000 mile
long pipeline from the Caspian Sea through Afghanistan to the Arabian Sea.

Isn't that strange?

UNOCAL spent $10,000,000,000 on geological surveys for pipeline
construction, and very nicely courted the Taliban for their support in
allowing the construction to begin.

Isn't that strange?

All of the leading Taliban officials were in Texas negotiating with UNOCAL
in 1998.

Isn't that strange?

1998-1999 the Taliban changed its mind and threw UNOCAL out of the country
and awarded the pipeline project to a company from Argentina.

Isn't that strange?

John Maresca VP of UNOCAL testified before Congress and said no pipeline
until the Taliban was gone and a more friendly government was established.

Isn't that strange?

1999-2000 The Taliban became the most evil people in the world.

Isn't that strange?

Senior American officials in mid-July told Niaz Naik, a former Pakistani
Foreign Secretary, that military action against Afghanistan would go ahead
by the middle of October.

Isn't that strange?

9/11 WTC disaster...

Bush goes to war against Afghanistan even though none of the hijackers
came from Afghanistan.

Isn't that strange?

Bush blamed Bin Laden but has never offered any proof saying it's a "secret".

Isn't that strange?

Taliban offered to negotiate to turn over Bin Laden if we showed them some
proof. We refused; we bombed.

Isn't that strange?

Bush said: "This is not about nation building. It's about getting the
terrorists."

Isn't that strange?

We have a new government in Afghanistan.

Isn't that strange?

The leader of that government formerly worked for UNOCAL.

Isn't that strange?

Bush appoints a special envoy to represent the US to deal with that new
government, who formerly was the "chief consultant to UNOCAL".

Isn't that strange?

The Bush family acquired their wealth through oil?

Isn't that strange?

Bush's Secretary of Interior was the President of an oil company before
going to Washington.

Isn't that strange?

George Bush Sr. now works with the "Carlysle Group" specializing in huge
oil investments around the world.

Isn't that strange?

Condoleezza Rice worked for Chevron before going to Washington.

Isn't that strange?

Chevron named one of its newest "supertankers" after Condoleezza.

Isn't that strange?

Dick Cheney worked for the giant oil conglomerate Haliburton before becoming
VP.

Isn't that strange?

Haliburton gave Cheney $34,000,000, as a farewell gift when he left
Haliburton.

Isn't that strange?

Haliburton is in the pipeline construction business.

Isn't that strange?


There is $6 Trillion dollars worth of oil in the Caspian Sea area.

Isn't that strange?

The US government quietly announces Jan 31, 2002 we will support the
construction of the Trans-Afghanistan pipeline.

Isn't that strange?

President Musharref (Pakistan), and Karrzai, (Afghanistan...ex-Unocal)
announce agreement to build the proposed gas pipeline from Central Asia to
Pakistan via Afghanistan.

Isn't that strange?

Help build our list. Friends can get information and subscribe by following this link:

http://www.topica.com/lists/antiterror

Blah, it's Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon all over again.

I once drove through Texas, lived in Turkey, and was in the Army. That don't make me secret spy for Bush.... or does it?



;)

[TheRogue]

lmao...is all that real?

Does this shed any light ?

Why we still don't get it, one year on

Americans are badly served by semi-official media propaganda

Mark Hertsgaard
Wednesday September 11, 2002
The Guardian

Perhaps the greatest lie told to the American public about the September 11 terrorist attacks is that they prove the outside world hates us. President Bush, for example, has repeatedly warned Americans about foreign "evil doers" who loathe everything we stand for. The US media has been no less insistent, referring time and again to "Why they hate us", as one Newsweek story put it.

But the world doesn't hate us, the American people. It is our government, our military, and our corporations that are resented. To anyone living outside the US, this may seem an obvious point. But we Americans are not used to drawing the distinction most outsiders do between Americans and America. One result of Americans' confusion is that, a year after the attacks in New York and Washington, we remain largely ignorant of how the world regards us and why.

Non-Americans, however, misunderstand the true source of our ignorance about them, which only furthers our mutual estrangement. Yes, our mind-boggling wealth and power encourage a certain complacency and arrogance. But that is not the most important cause of our global naivete.

Americans are ignorant about the outside world mainly because most of what we're told about it is little more than semi-official propaganda. Our political leaders portray the acts of our government, military and corporations in the best possible light, and our news media do little to challenge these self-serving declarations.

An outstanding example was President Bush's warning to foreign nations, days after September 11, that "either you are with us or you are with the terrorists". The US would never accept such ultimatums itself, yet the arrogance of Bush's remark went unnoticed by America's journalistic elite. The International Herald Tribune did not mention Bush's statement until the 20th paragraph of its story, deep inside the paper. By contrast, the French daily Le Monde highlighted it three times on its front page.

I spent six months travelling the world before and after September 11, gathering impressions about my homeland. I interviewed a wide range of people in Europe, Africa, the Middle East and Asia. Today, as the Bush administration prepares to attack Iraq, I recall a comment by Ana, an intellectual in Barcelona, shortly after September 11: "Many of us have American friends, but we wish they would think a little more about their government, because we have to live with America's politics, and that is often difficult, especially when war is in the air."

Would outsiders be more forgiving if they knew how little critical information we Americans receive about our government's foreign policy? Even sophisticated foreign observers don't appreciate how poorly served Americans are by our media and education systems, how narrow the range of information and debate is in "the land of the free".

For example, last year's terrorist attacks presented an eerie coincidence to anyone familiar with the real history of American foreign policy. September 11 is also the date - in 1973 - when a coup encouraged by the US overthrew a democratically elected government in Chile. The official death toll in Chile, 3,197, was remarkably close to the number of lives lost to terror 28 years later in America. This disquieting piece of deja vu passed unremarked in American coverage.

We do not, thank God, have a state-owned or state-controlled press in the US. We do, however, have a state-friendly one. Our news media support the prevailing political system, its underlying assumptions and power relations, and the economic and foreign policies that flow from them.

Because most news coverage of the Middle East reflects the pro-Israeli bias that characterises official American policy, Americans are ignorant about basic aspects of the conflict. A poll last May found that only 32% of Americans knew that more Palestinians than Israelis had died in this spring's fighting.

In Washington, the media function like a palace court press. In the name of political neutrality, the definition of quotable sources is limited to the narrow spectrum from Republican to Democrat. If a given point of view - say, that missile defence is a dangerous fantasy - is not articulated by leading lawmakers, it is ignored. Instead of substance, journalists focus on palace intrigues: what is the White House proposing today, how will Congress react, who will win the fight? Rarely does the coverage stand back from insider debates, or offer alternative analysis. Thus our media fail to act as the check and balance our nation's founders envisioned.

So think twice, foreign friends, before judging my compatriots too harshly. Americans suffer daily from pseudo-news that parrots the pronouncements of the powerful and illuminates nothing but the corporate bottom line. Is it any wonder we don't understand the world around us ?

· Mark Hertsgaard is an American journalist. His latest book is The Eagle's Shadow: Why America Fascinates and Infuriates the World

[Grinnin Reaper]

That's about stupid. But the world doesn't hate us, the American people. It is our government, our military, and our corporations that are resented Well then who the hell died in that tragedy? Last time I checked the majority of those that were killed were American citizens not just military and government officials. And no, Americans aren't hated all over the world but there are places that Americans are hated. One of the groups that hate Americans is Al Quede. There are groups out there that specifically hate Americans and will stop at nothing to kill Americans, no mater if they are Government, Military, or civilian. And this piece of work For example, last year's terrorist attacks presented an eerie coincidence to anyone familiar with the real history of American foreign policy. September 11 is also the date - in 1973 - when a coup encouraged by the US overthrew a democratically elected government in Chile. The official death toll in Chile, 3,197, was remarkably close to the number of lives lost to terror 28 years later in America. This disquieting piece of deja vu passed unremarked in American coverage.
If I went back in time I could find other things that happend on that date also. The terrorists don't care about or have ever referred to Chile so what does that prove? And the death toll refrence? I seriously doubt that the bastards that did the unthinkable last year planned out how many people they were trying to kill. I've traveled overseas as well but I'm not a foreign policy expert. I just know that there are people that loves us and people that hate us. We need to do what we can to defend ourselves, or deal with the consequences. I think it's a load of crap to stir such emotions on a day like this. You can say what you want to say but be ready to hear what we have to say as well. That's a load of shit to put up on a day like this.

[CiKoTiC]

An outstanding example was President Bush's warning to foreign nations, days after September 11, that "either you are with us or you are with the terrorists". The US would never accept such ultimatums itself, yet the arrogance of Bush's remark went unnoticed by America's journalistic elite. The International Herald Tribune did not mention Bush's statement until the 20th paragraph of its story, deep inside the paper. By contrast, the French daily Le Monde highlighted it three times on its front page.


Where would the world be if the United States hadn't got involved in the fight against Nazi fascism during WWII? Germany had control of Europe and most of N. Africa and was close to bringing down Russia. Japan had control of all of S.E Asia and China and most of the S. Pacific. Imagine where we would be now. The Middle East should be at the very least grateful that we stepped in and stopped it because I'm pretty sure Middle East oil would have been a valuable resouce for Hitlers Germany

What would have happened if the United States hadn't took a stand against communism in Korea and Vietnam? Communism was a cancer spreading like the Nazis did in WWII. We stopped it again when the USSR wanted to put ICBMs in Cuba. In addition, we fought the Cold War for the good of the entire world, not just the United States. Nuclear arms between the US and the USSR totaled in the tens of thousands. Now they are less than ten thousand. Is this a good thing? I think so.

Let's not even think about what would might have been if the United States had sat back and let Saddam Hussein take control of the Middle East and it's oil. What did we get for a thanks? Osama Bin Ladin pissed off because we protected his home land. He was more concerned that Americans defiled the Holy Land than he was with it being invaded.

Should the United States project it's infuence in the Middle East? You bet. The Middle East controls most of the oil on the entire earth. Let's face it, oil drives the world economy and without it, the world would be plunged into economic turmoil. Who remembers the gas shortage in 1977 because OPEC decided to reduce the oil output and increase the price of a barrel of oil?

What Americans are ignorant about is that Middle East oil is not controlled by governments but is controlled by individuals. Just name one government in the Middle East that is democraticly elected by it's people? Maybe if there were Middle East "governments" that practiced world diplomacy the US wouldn't have to project it's influence so much.

I lived in the Middle East and know first hand that the United States does a tremendus favor to the countries it has Military bases and influence in. We pump billions of dollars into their economies and protect their borders from invasion. And who pays for all this help? The average American citizen pays for it. Every single tax payer in America pays to protect everyone in the entire world from fascists, dictators, and terroists and what do we get for a thanks? Nothing but resentment and anger. If the United States were to take a blind eye to all this, the world would still resent us for NOT doing anything.

So, I ask this, is the world a better place since the United States takes a stance or is better off not taking one.

I think the answer is clear.



Lets roll

[eviltechie]

boooooooooooooooooringggggggggggggg

[CiKoTiC]

Boring? You think what is happening in the world is boring?

Man, I hate to think what you consider exciting.

:rolleyes:

[eviltechie]

lol

no

its those conspiracies that arent true that bores me
because ive seen too many

[jinx]

Who in the hell edited this thread to remove my posts and soccer_studs ? Is the 'guest' above that posted the " Mark Hertsgaard " thread an admin of this forum ? If so would you please standup - stepforward and tell us why and who you are ? Several posts are missing before your posted the lame brain 3rd grade dropout trash by that guy. His isometric viewpoint is a crying shame !
It is about the same stupid thinking as Bush planning the 9-11 attach that was on here and disappeard with the editing.
CiKoTiC wrote a very good rebuttle to which I agree 100 %.

As far as this poll :
---------
"A poll last May found that only 32% of Americans knew that more Palestinians than Israelis had died in this spring's fighting."
------------

How many of these Palestinians were 'suicide bombers' ? He didn't mention that aspect. Yet on the CBS news the other night a Palestinian mother was interviewed and telling us how proud she was of her 21 yr old son that she had raised up to be a suicide bomber and she was about to send him out to take out some Israelies, how sad, yet she didn't volunteer to go herself !

The kind of trash you posted on this day was a deliberate act to stir up emotions as you have. This is a cowardly act to which you hid behind the name of ' guest ' which clearly further defines your character and personality.
The U.S is the most generous nation on earth, and smashed Hitler in WW2 from a continent away after he went thru Europe like a hot knife thru butter with hardly any resistance, then Japan from another continent away at the same time . They had to learn not to ever repeat another 'Pearl Harbor'. Hereohito had the Japaneese people thinking he was a God !
If the U.S. opened up it's borders without restrictions, every other country in the world would be empty, as they would all come here, and you know why as well as I do.
Now tell us something good about the U.S. ! Then walk the trash over to the trashcan.

[Grinnin Reaper]

You know what et I think your right. It get old hearing the same ol' US is evil crap. Truth is 9 out of 10 of those bitchin' help perpetuate it. "The US is in it for the oil intrest" Do you drive a car, use electric, or every fly on a plane? Then you create the need for oil. It's supply and demand. You use it, they'll keep selling it. Is the government always honest and up front? No. Let's not get stupid. The truth is the government sets policies based on what people want and do. If no one used electric or drove gas cars don't you think the government would have to change? The government will adapt to the people. If your American you can help change things. Just actually do something intead of complaining. And that post just rubbed me the wrong way. What a load of crap.

[CiKoTiC]

I have to agree with you ET, the conspiracy advocates bore me also. However, the person that posted under "Guest" irritated a nerve with me. Not only do I hate posts from people that choose to HIDE behind anonymous posts, I also hate it when they post total crap.\

I'm a firm advocate of if you have something to say, stand up and be heard, but be a man about it if you do.

[CiKoTiC]

Ya know something, I hate it when I read or hear the ignorance people spew out about America whithout considering what this country has done for the world as a whole.

We protected just about evey country on the face of this planet from fascism, communists, and dictators and we still catch hell over it.

All America wants is a free and democratic society that respects the freedoms and rights given to each and every person given under god or whatever diety they believe in.

Has America EVER conquered a country and taken it over? No, we have set up a democratic government an set it free. Japan and Germany are much better now than they were pre WWII. If there is any evidence that the United States has gone to war for their own gain and not benifited the entire planet then let it be known... I would really like to hear it.

[eviltechie]

i used to be stupid and think that USA likes to stick their spoons in other people's soup and stir up some uneeded trouble

but of course i realized, since USA is the strongest nation currently, actions does need to be taken to protect its people because it is a big target

it is also its job to keep the world a safer place to live in alongside with UN

UN is getting weaker and weaker
i wish there is something done to keep it stronger

[Bear]

So think twice, foreign friends, before judging my compatriots too harshly. Americans suffer daily from pseudo-news that parrots the pronouncements of the powerful and illuminates nothing but the corporate bottom line. Is it any wonder we don't understand the world around us ?



Point taken

[Bear]

We protected just about evey country on the face of this planet from fascism, communists, and dictators and we still catch hell over it.


If so tell me why USA helped the facist Pinochet and his military
in Chile to overthrough the DEMOCRATICLY elected Allende ?

I belive it had something to do with coppermines.

[accurateimage]

Sorry Bear but I think allot of that long statement was crap, and Evil is from Canada so he does not count *LOL* j/k ;) Well anyways here is a good rule to see how the world judges us, go to any world chat room and let me know your from the usa, and see how many people start bitching about Americans ect... It has happened to me and my friends on a regular basis when we were in foreign rooms. I have never found a country or a people that did not bitch instantly when they found out you were American. The only ones that I have found that like us is Mexico for they love our $ and Australia for it is just cool to hang down under. And Canada.... well that is another story *LOL* wont get into it :)

[Bear]

You're welcome :)
World politics are complex and there so little of what actually is
going on that people get to know about, so I think it is importent
that so many views as possible are aired.

[jinx]

Bear, Most all views you air are anti-american, shouldn't you - couldn't you find something wrong in your own country to air and bitch about ?

[CiKoTiC]

Very true Bear, not all information is released to the public. However, the big picture is very hard to hide with todays news media. I spent 6 years working in the US Intelligence community and trust me when I say, knowing the details does NOT change the big picture.

Also, I did a little research on the facts concerning Chile. According to the Library of Congress, Nixon did withhold finances AFTER Allende tried to natioanlize the copper mines. Rumors circulated that there were covert operations to destabilize his (Allende) administration but they were never proven.

Critics of the left blamed Allende for going to extremes, destroying the economy, violating the constitution, and undermining the spirit if not the letter of democracy. Right-wing critics in particular accused the left of even plotting an armed takeover, a charge that was never proved. Critics also assailed the UP for being unclear about the limits of its reforms and thus frightening the middle class into the arms of the opposition. Critics of the right accused Popular Unity, in conjunction with the United States, of ruining the economy and of calling out the armed forces to protect its property and privileges. Observers in general scolded the far left for its adventurous excesses. The far left retorted that Popular Unity failed because it was too timid to arm the masses. Critics of the Christian Democrats chastised them for refusing to compromise, locking arms with the rightist opposition, and failing to defend democracy.



I do accept the fact the United States is not perfect. I have questioned some polices myself. However, after living abroad and seeing first hand the attrocities that plague the world, I can't help but to believe the United States does want to do what is right.

You have to admit, Afganistan is a better place now that the Taliban was forced from power. We stepped in the stop the murdering of innocent human beings in not only this nation and Afganistan, but other nations around the world. If the Taliban, Al Queda, or anyone else wants to fight a war then fine. Let's draw lines, line our forces up opposite each other and fight it out. However, they don't want to do that. They want to target innocent civilians and in a civilized world, that is not acceptable and they need to pay a high price for doing it.