New P4 mobo and I guess I don't know enough about Intel

[BobyJo]

I allowed a customer talk me into purchasing a MSI NEO-FIS2R mobo w/Intel P4 3.0x800fsb cpu.
I can't get the system to OC to more than 220fsb without craping out. This is the first Intel system I have built in over 3yrs for myself.
I have built a few for customers but so far I have used ASUS mobo's at the customers request.
This customer promised if I purchased one, he would purchase a system from me also. @#$%^ I guess I have been duped.
I am sure MSI makes better hardware than my opinion at this time.
If anyone out there that is Intel savy would like to assist a greenhorn when it comes to Intel systems, I would look forward for some help.
I have 2x256mb Mushkin PC3200 matched pair black pcb 2.2.2.5 memory.
I installed each stick in slot 1 & 3. I have tried setting the memory to 6.3.3.3 and even higher settings.
Still no luck in the high fsb settings.

The cpu is, FPO Batch L315A877
Version C30419-003,
Product Code BX80532PG30000DSL6WK,
MM # 852371.

I don't know if this cpu is a good OC'er or not. Maybe someone with Intel experience would enlighten me. I have tried all the tricks I use with AMD systems and no go. I read several reviews of this mobo and several say they have OC'ed this board to 274fsb on air without any problems. Others say they have reached over 250fsb but no one like my expierence. It is time I asked for some help from you Intel guys. Thanks in advance. BJ

[Jason425]

well you said you're at 320 fsb.. what's the problem? I can only get to 245 fsb because the northbridge is too hot and I haven't gotten around to getting that solved. Also, the 2.4c's are the best overclockers. The 3 is good, but not great.

[BobyJo]

My DUH, I meant to say 220

[Jason425]

try your chipset. I have the same spark 7+ (it appears) as you and i heard that with a fan on the northbridge I can get higher, as it's getting too hot with just the sink on there. I get to 58c load now though, so I don't know how much more I want to go for heat sake.

[BobyJo]

I have checked all this, the cpu is running in the 30c area per a digital readout.
The fans on the NB and cpu are running about the same speeds and the temps are well within acceptable range.
When I assembled this system I used the Shin-Etsu G751 compound, when first fired up the system the cpu went all the way to the mid 50c temps before it began to settle down at that temp.
After about 2 hrs of operation the temps had dropped into the 30c area. Now the temps range from the low 30c constantly.
I recommend this compound highly, the application is very important.
The stuff performs better if the cpu gets hot and almost liquifys the compound between the hs and cpu.
After that the temps are great for air cooling.
The fan on the Spark 7 dies to silent after a few minutes of operation.

My choice of mobo was an ASUS P4C800 E Dlx, but I allowed a fellow to persuade me to go with this MSI mobo. I know that MSI makes good stuff, they are a big company and a lot of people use thier stuff without problems and performance is great. I just don't know the in's & out's of this system as yet. I will get it together soon.

[Gixxer420]

try the ratio divider in the bios. 1:1,3:1,4:1, 4:5 i think but sumthing like that

or read the article at octekies.com
^
|
|

thx ET forgot that was even thier.

[eviltechie]

hahaha

just read this guide
http://www.msi.com.tw/html/e_service/techexpress/tech_column/6788/page2.htm

it was poted on octekies.com

awesome article if you got that board

READ BOBYJO READ!!!

bullseye

[Jason425]

oddly.. when i first tried the spark, i used silver compound, but temps were in the 60's.. i used the stock compound, and it's like now. :/

[BobyJo]

Thanks Evil::
I did read this and will attempt to set my mobo to as high as I can with the 3.0x800 cpu.
This looks promising and it is not like anything I have attempted with AMD stuff.
I will let you know about how it goes with the 875P that I have.

The 3.0 won't go to 291fsb. Will post at 250, but will not load Windows. Will post and load Windows at 240. So maybe I will attempt something between 240 & 250. Still no heat problems anywhere.

http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=6937630

[Jason425]

i can get 250 first thing in morn (highest i've tried) can only get 245 when it's warmed up.. run 240 when not benching for now.. i'm almost certain it's chipset heat for me.

[BobyJo]

Well this is 245fsb. and kicked up the memory settings one notch. Don't think it will go much higher unless relaxing the memory timmings by quite a bunch.

http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=6937770

[eviltechie]

np

also note that 3.0C is not 2.4C
doesnt OC as well

[BobyJo]

Yea I understand that.
The X for the 3.0 is 15x where the 2.4 is probably about 12x-13x or so. Thanks again for the heads up on this.
The system is stable at these settings. Hope I can get some more tweaks going for this system. Thanks again

[eviltechie]

well 2.4C always has been an awesome overclocker
some 1 has taken it to 3.8GHz before

www.cpudatabase.com

anyways
did the guide help?
what ram do you have?

[BobyJo]

I did read about the OC'ability of the 2.4C.
I did look at this cpu before making a decision on which to purchase.
Most everyone I had discussed this with says the 2.4C gets pretty hot if OC'ed to 3.xx and did require the maximum cooling available at 3.5-3.6. The 3.0C does not have any overheating problems even when OC'ed to the same 3.6.
Needless to say the .6,OC is really not much compared to the 2.4 to 3.6. The latter should generate more heat than the 3.0.
Some of the reviewers went to 274 and most all were able to get 250 out of the 3.0C, I am not getting anywhere near the 274.

Did you look at the stats on my cpu and give your opinion of what to expect from the cpu?
Please do, I do not know what is better or best in Intel's cage.

[Jason425]

the 2.4c is 12x multiplier... and I lowered all voltages to stock, and can still get to 245 fsb.. but temps are raging at 56c when the fan is full blast.. (load) eventually i might try my silver compound again.. Last night i took a spare case fan and made it into another intake, so I have two intakes spitten air over the cpu.. the psu and a pci exhaust are getten rid of the hot air.. heat was never an issue for me before.. now I know how it is.. :/

[eviltechie]

so how hot is it now?
how are your case fans' setup?
do you have enough intake and exhausts?

[BobyJo]

Jason425::I have two 80x25x80mm case fans blowing air into the front of the case and the same conf fans sucking air out at the back.
This causes a flow of air across the system board in an equal way. +
I also have a 80x25x80mm fan blowing air directly onto the video card, memory sticks, and the cpu.
This fan is a bit higher in cfm than the intake fans mounted in front of case.
The air escaping through the rear fans should be able ot take care of this additional incoming air of the side panel fan.
The temp of the cpu via a probe attached to the hs next door to the core, is running between 30c to 37c. The 37c is full load on cpu.
I think the Intel cpu's run a bit cooler than AMD cpu's do.

[Ryon]

Dont feel alone bobyjo, I have the same board you have. Its basically (ino) a bios problem. Bios 1.8, in beta now, is supposed to remedy the issues with memory timings while ocing. The first thing i can say is if you are trying to OC via the corecell progie they send along you are fighting a loosing battle, the thing is totally worthless. I would suggest if you havnt tried these...
flash to the newest bios 1.7(or a beta of 1.8) as of this post. Under voltage in the bios there are 4 settings for slow fast turbo and ultra turbo, crank that up as high as you can with out loosing your mem timings.For me this was fast in bios1.6 and ultra turbo in 1.7. Change your you ddr voltage to 2.7. and turn the auto mem timings off as they are crap.i set my cosair to 2-2-2-5,8 but it will only stay this way with increased voltage. Other than that I'm sorry to tell you that the real solution to this lies with the programers at MSI. Its pretty sad to design hardware as nice as this but have it limited by the bios.

[BobyJo]

Ryan::I have already came to the same conclusion as you. I do not even have the OC proggy installed anylonger. I am setting my memory at 2,2,2,6,8, Ultra Turbo, and have been running pretty well. I am running the 1.7 bios at this time.

[Jason425]

this asus board is a bag of mysteries.. i set it to standard.. and it didn't boot.. OC 20% and it did.. anything else and it wouldn't...(yea i mess with manual stuff too) turn voltage down.. heat is exactely the same.. oh and voltage hasn't affected any OC.. and performance mode makes 90% of settings not work.. good times.. not..

[BobyJo]

Ryon:::Would you exchange your MSI mobo for an Abit if the exchange was possible?
I have been reading the reviews on the 875P mobo's.
It seems like the Abit IC7-3Max is the most desired mobo for OC'ing and running stable at any OC'ed speeds.
The IC7-G is probably the next to it, mainly due to the cost difference between the Max3 and the latter.
This is my first expierence with MSI, normally I have used Epox and Asus for the AMD systems being built.
The Asus top end 875P mobo does not rate in the hi-end OC'able mobo's being reviewed.
Epox does not show to have this chipset mobo as yet, but the P4 systems are not as highly taunted with Epox as AMD is anyway.
I built Abit & Asus systems back when I was building Intel systems.
The P3 was the last system's I was building.
I thought the BX chipset was the best ever was. At that time it was "IMO"

[Gixxer420]

I have read alot of peeps are having some great success out of the Asus P4C800. If I was purchasing a new board I would probably grab this one.

[BobyJo]

The P4C800-E Deluxe was the mobo I was looking at and gonna purchase when this guy came along and gave me a long speel about the MSI mobo. The deal was if I purchased the MSI he would be in and purchase a system box made with the same mobo.
Needless to say he doesn't return any calls, or answer any email's etc. Yes I would be better off if I had ordered the Asus.

[Jason425]

i bet the p4c is great.. but its the most expensive board I know of..

[BobyJo]

Jason::
The Abit IC7-Max3 is the most expensive mobo for a desktop that I have looked at.
Not a lot more than the P4C but $30 is quite a bit when you are looking at a mobo.

I would have to agree with BobbyJo on that...

[Gixxer420]

oops forgot to login ^
|
|

[eviltechie]

also for a P4 system, ram timings arent that crucial as long as you hit high FSB

its not that important compared to an AMD system

read it on Dan's Data

[Jason425]

have never seen the max 3.. so other than that.. p4c is.. yea seems latency isn't as important as fsb

[BobyJo]

I ordered the IC7-Max3 already received a FedEx tracking # for it.
It is scheduled for delivery on Wednesday.
Guess I am learning about one thing, Intel stuff is getting expensive. Hopefully this will be the last Intel system board I will have to get to get an Intel system up and running at least as good as the one I built for a customer back in April.
That was the smoothest operating system I have ever put together.
It was an ASUS P4PE mobo w/533fsb cpu, that cpu ran in hi 20c to the low 30c area. I was impressed with the cool operation of the cpu.
The processor I have selected for my system runs more in like the AMD systems I have been used to building.
Operating temps are in the low to hi 30c area, full load of hard gaming will bring the core temps into the low 40c (bios temps)
The thermal probe still reads in the low to mid 30c range even when the bios is reading like 41c. The thermal probe is reading more like 37c.
The probe is attached flush with the edge of the core cover on the HS, one on each side. One for the fan speed mgmt and the other for the dig readout.

The IC7-MaxIII has come and is now installed in the system.
Whole lotta stuff to hook up and make sure every thing is working.
But everything is working as I expected.
Have not attempted any OC'ing as yet, the satellite was down all day yesterday due to bad weather.
Still raining here but the clouds have thinned enough for the satellite to work.
Boots everytime, no errors, no bad things with this mobo.
Been a long time since going though the Abit bios. Seems as though thier bios is different than most other mfg.
I think I like this setup and hopefully it will give us a long time of computing without any problems.

[BobyJo]

I must say the MAX3 is just a solid great mobo.
The MSI had ruined the PC3200 memory I was using.
So I have had to install Samsung PC2700 memory in the MAX.
Setting to 2/3 the mobo will go to 220-230-245 without a hiccup.
I did not push past 245 since a 678mhz OC seems pretty good to me.
I called Mushkin Friday and explained what has happened and they are sending new stuff to me.
Should be here today or tomorrow.
Also I ordered 2 256mb sticks of Crucial PC3200 for stock.
The only memory I had in stock was the PC2700.
One cenerio I was reading about says the less $$ memory and Cas 2.5-3 would OC higher than the CL2.
For some reason the hi-end memory CL2 would only boot at 1:1.
I think I would need to run the memory at 4:5 for OC'ing.
I thought Intel was high tech requiring a lot different knowledge than AMD OC'ing.
But I just set the fsb at where I want to go and it boots up and runs there.
I do not run my system OC'ed all the time, it is just the idea that knowing it will OC there if I want to do it.
Peace of Mind.

[Jason425]

looking at your sig reminded me.. you have that fan.. once again the stock intel fan owns the fan i buy.. only 1 degree more on load with stock fan and it's half as loud.. odd.. and upsetting that i wasted $30..

[BobyJo]

My temps are about 5c higher since I am using onboard sound.
I am gonna get a hs for the ICH5R, it does get hot controlling the hd's, sound, etc.
Still no temp problems with the Spark 7.
The temps of various components in your system is controlled by air flow inside the case.
So depends on your case, the fans you have installed in your case.
All these will have a marked result on the temps of the video card, memory, and cpu.

[Jason425]

i agree completely.. but why would the stock intel fan do the exact same (well one degree more load) than the spark with same other config.. very odd..

[BobyJo]

What case are you using? How many fans and where are they located? This will have a definate effect on the temps of any and all components.

[Jason425]

some generic window case.. 2 intake in back.. one pci exhaust.. power supply exhaust.. not only no real spot in front to put one but there is so much junk by the drives there would be no real air flow.. plenty over cpu though with 2 intakes..


but even so, that's not the point. Poor or good case airflow would effect cpu temp of both fans.. I don't see how it would effect the higher rpm fan more negatively..

[BobyJo]

Believe me airflow does effect cpu temps.
Blowing air down or up on the cpu fan makes a difference also.
I would suggest you invest $ in a really good case.
One of the cases that have 4-5 fans in it when you purchase it.
This is not counting the power supply.

I must say I am lovin this MAX3 board: OC'ing is a dream up to a point.
I am getting a little over 6000 in 3DMark03

http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=7014031

This mobo is really great.
Some day I am gonna see how far this setup will go.

Jason425::
Do you have the download for 3DMark03, the old copy?
The copy I downloded saves the performance score in my Excel Windows program, not online at all.
If you have the file that you are using, so I could borrow that install program and install the older version on my system?
That will be great.

[BobyJo]

I had one SATA WD 120gb hd and one PATA WD 120gb hd w/adapter setup on my system as a Raid 0 array.
This has been working great for over a week.
Now the SATA drive refuses to be seen in my system.
I have tried everything and my system was down because of this one hard drive.
I have never had a hard drive do this, I have had them burn, and short out, etc but not just quit being recognized in bios.
I tried with only that one drive connected to the Intel ICH5R controller. The bios simply does not see it.
The older WD PATA using the adapter is seen, so now I am running with only the one hard drive.
I probably will never need the second hard drive, and I don't know if the raid array is better than a std IDE hard drive.
I know it should be, but I haven't taken the time to do all that benching as yet.
Well I guess here comes RMA on that drive.