View Full Version : Happy 4th of July!!!
HAPPY4TH OFJULY
I know this aint tech related...but this is the first Independece Day since the tragic events of 9-11-01...this greeting goes out to not only u guys but evey one of our hero's that did their part to fight for our country and devote their lives in doing so...the FDNY...and all of America...Happy 4th of July guys. SPAM
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vee_ess
07-04-2002, 04:27 AM
From me, too, Happy Fourth of July! I hope everyone has a good day, especially to veterans who know a true patriotism only a lucky few will ever know. Also hope that everything goes fine, with nothing happening where one tries to hurt another, not only here but all over the world.
But once again, Happy Independence Day!
aoC_PRoZaK
07-04-2002, 04:35 AM
i always though that this strong patriotism of america was something admirably, but since last september it has changed into some sort of, would be a little hard to say fascism i think.
you should not think of the verterans who went out to kick SPAMsome guys ass ya don't like. try to make friendship with the ppl in afghanistan and make some big 4th of july charity action and send them money and food. what bout that? no offence, but there are guys that need ya sympathy more than the dead of the terror acts. what bout the SURVIVERS of the WAR. think of that ::)
well man u sure do have good point there...and my deepest sympathy goes out to them as well...and to every person who decideds to turn down war and find an alternative to it...as well as the people that start peace treaties and other forms of anti-war....i think that these people are among the brightest for what they have accomplished...
aoC_PRoZaK
07-04-2002, 04:51 AM
hopefully one day earth will be ruled by ppl who have brains instead of guns :-/
Grinnin Reaper
07-04-2002, 06:24 AM
Um -=aoC|PRoZaK=- that's been the whole reason we have forces in Afganastan. SPAMWe're just takin' out terrorist cells. SPAMWe started this operation with food drops. SPAMThis country has always walked a thin line. SPAMWe try to help all the innocents while we kill the enemy (the people tryin' to kill us). SPAMLot's of American's have died because we have bent over backwards to save innocents. SPAMfascism would be to say we've started destroying other cultures. SPAMIf you would have ever seen the degree of pain this country goes to to keep the civilians on the ground safe from harm I think you would have a diffrent opinion. SPAMI've been there and I know it changed my life. SPAMWe have this country because of the American soldier that has bleed and died for this country. SPAMIf their is one way to celebrate your independance today it is just to remember those people. SPAM
aoC_PRoZaK
07-04-2002, 08:19 AM
and what bout that native americans that blee when our ancesters came to america :P humans are damned to a long line of blood all through history, and we haven't learned a bit yet :'(
Grinnin Reaper
07-04-2002, 08:34 AM
That's true I cant argue that many things have went wrong in the past and much evil has been done. SPAMWe must learn from our mistakes and those of our ancestors. SPAMWe can make the world better or condem it to evil, the choice is ours. SPAMI make my choice to live free, defend that right of mine and for others if need be again and to try to make the world a little better before I leave it. SPAMThis is a great country we live in. SPAMLet's keep it free.
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Happy and safe July 4th to all and thanks to SS for posting this thread.
This is our - US - ( we the people ) day. This is the day when we stood up, stepped forward and said 'no more'. As a result a new country, new freedoms and a new way of life was born. But not with out sacrafice and loss. Freedom is not free and never will be.
I find PRoZaK's remarks offensive and uncalled for. Not once did he mention the 'World Trade Center' and the thousands killed. Our National Anthem contains these words:"To conquer we must, when our cause is just".
For PRoZaK's info the USA already supplies more than 80 percent of all foriegn aid to Afghanistan and has been for decades. How much does your country contribute ?
This is our day to celebrate 'kicking ass' . PRoZaK should study his own country, his schools have failed him, to make statements like " send them money and food" is pure BS. What you should do PRoZaK, is strap on a parachute, tie your countries flag to your butt and jump out over Afghanistan, and see how long you live! Do you really think for a moment that the talaban and other terrorist there give a damm that your from Austria/Germany/Holland/ or where ever ? Not for a second, no matter how much food or money you have or can give them.
During WW2 our country - USA- mustered a 12 million man military force that spilled their blood on every continent and the seven seas, on their way to smash dictators -(such as the one your fathers and grandfathers lived under) that had surrounded their kingdoms with steel bands and steel umbrellas in order to torture, enslave and murder millions.
All this provides you with your present day freedom, to get on this forum and throw cold water on our July 4th parade ! If our country wasn't great, then foreigners would NOT be trying to cut holes in the flag to crawl thru and get in.
Our country is not perfect but we self correct as we go. Others are jealous and envious of our freedom and wish to destroy it and us and you as well. But there are too many redblooded Americans to let that happen.
Glad you made it through and no attempts was made to
destroy your day !
As many innocent people were killed sept 11th as
innocent people killed were in Afghanistan during the bombings to fight the terrorist even if some measures
were taken to avoid it.
Grinnin Reaper
07-05-2002, 11:06 AM
Has there been innocents killed? SPAMI'm sure there has. SPAMBut to just call it some measures is such an understatement it isn't even funny. SPAMI've sat through the "war brief's" SPAMI knew the procedures and the drills when I was in. SPAMMany American Service members have lost their lives because of the restrictive nature of their orders. SPAMIt's not a flawless system and I've saw it fail. SPAMBut without the action were taking now how many other would die without this action?
Bear,
You seem to have a low level of comprehension on the entire 9-11 tragedy. Maybe the news is managed and or filter tipped getting in to Sweden. Any innocents killed in Afghanistan as a result of our bombings were totally accidental or the terrorists placed them in harms way on purpose, that is a common occurence there as news reports. The innocents killed on 9-11 was a pure deliberate action, as targets containing innocents were singled out for that purpose.
But since you have the same mindset as PRoZaK=- SPAM......which appears to be trying to put us on a 'guilt trip' for taking retalitory actions, or it could be that Bin laden , Sadam Hussien, Kadafi, and other such 'cut-throat' scumbags may be your heros, keep in mind they sure as hell ain't ours.
Suppose that Bin laden had targeted downtown Stockholm and did the same thing there as here on 9-11, with the same number of casualties, would you really be eager to go around in Sweden there, asking for donations and taking up food to send him? Why not ? That is what you are advocating.
Grinnin Reaper
07-05-2002, 01:41 PM
Very true Jinx. SPAMIt's become increasingly popular to use "Human Shields" in operations due to the fact that America tries so hard to minimize civilian casulties. SPAMAmerica is probably one of the few countries this tactic works against. SPAMThe fact that many of our enemies use this form of cawardly defense should only go to show others that even our enemy knows to what great extent we try to save innocents from harm.
You get me wrong the 9 -11 incident were a terrible act
and thouse guys are definitely not my heroes.
Have you ever considered that the the news also could be managed and or filter tipped getting to the american people ?
Or that young pliable american soldiers could be told a
certain story to serve te purpose of men in power not
necessarely for the best of mankind ?
I know that young Israeli soldiers get indoctrinated before
they go out and destroy peoples homes saying that they are
looking for terrorist if one looks for terrorists in innocent
peoples houses there is no need to crush porcelain poor
grains on the floor and destroy kitchens and when pee
on it !
Being away from this thread only a day...ive seen the increasing popularity that this has brought...and as i read thread i realize how much you guys are getting into this and that was my intent thoroughly. SPAMBeing that America does have the best military defense as well as naval command and airforce academy as well, i could see why all of the enemy countrys would use this form of cawardly defense. SPAMThere are many good points in this thread and i encourage you guys to further more announce them. And hopefully there will be a world one day that hopefully one day earth will be ruled by ppl who have brains instead of guns. SPAM One day we will realize....
Bear,
You didn't answer the 'Ben Laden /Stockholm ' question ! Wonder why ? But you jumped in equating U.S. Military Forces with Israeli soldier actions against the Palestine Terrorists. That may be the way the Israeli soldiers deal with terriost, I don't know but you shouldn't associate their actions with ours, no more that I would equate or associate Sweden with North Korea. We are not the same.
No, the news is not filtered here in the USA, as we supply news to the world. Ben laden himself watches CNN on satelite from his tent.
But I am having a problem understanding why you and PRoZaK=- are focusing huge amounts of hate against the USA and then wanting Ben laden/talaban/ Al Quieda/ Kadifi/ Sadam/ and other terrorist to be protected, well fed- by USA, with lots of money in their pockets that we should send them. Very irrational thinking.
Only when they enter your home, maim or kill your family, steal your possessions, burn your property, enslave you, like they did their own citizenry, will you understand their true intent ! Which is to rule the world. But from yours and PRoZaK=-'s postings, I don't think either one of you would put up much of a fight.
Suppose that Bin laden had targeted downtown Stockholm and did the same thing there as here on 9-11, with the same number of casualties, would you really be eager to go around in Sweden there, asking for donations and taking up food to send him? Why not ? That is what you are advocating.
Taliban means "learned man" a small part of afghanistans
population who came to power after the war against russia.
The help would go to people who has nothing with Bin Laden
or the talibans to do.
Not an answer, so I am assuming your saying -yes. SPAMWell, more mis-information, The Talaban controlled most of Afghanistan until we went in and started - kicking ass. All the foreign aid that came in to Afghanistan during their control was actually under THIER control, nothing went to the people that needed it. We had to distribute our aid to the starving populations there with U.S. Armed Escorts, guess you missed or never saw all that news.
Again, the U.S. supplies 75-80 percent of all foreign aid going to Afghanistan, how much does Sweden contribute ?
Your last sentence will only be true as long as the U.S. Forces are there - 'kicking ass'- decimating the talaban and other terrorist. Also they may not get a chance to 'target' stockholm as long as we keep decimating them, which simply means that you are being protected by our presence there, although you and PRoZaK=- would never admit it. Your schools have failed you too.
While we are on the hot topic of all of the war going and and such...there have been repeated threats against the US...some as sever as the Twin Tower bombings...being that there are even more threats being distributed throught Taliban officals...i feel that the bombings that US intended on the terrorists are needed to be upscaled due to the incoming threats that we are, to date, still recieving...and may i remind you that this is no laughing matter...this summer might be a nerve wrenching one for some...i mean it has gotten so bad that WE NEED A FRIKIN THREAT LEVEL METER!!! - and we are currently at yellow...check this article out for further details about summer threats SPAM SPAM SPAM
Al Qaeda planning summer attacks? (http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/07/02/july4.threat/index.html)
TheRogue
07-06-2002, 06:49 AM
threat level meter = defcon.. though it isn't exactly public info what the defcon is
Afghan VP assassinated. Check out this CNN Report :
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Afghan vice president shot dead
(http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/asiapcf/central/07/06/afghan.assassination/in
dex.html)
--------
He once faught the Talaban as a northern Alliance Commander. The Talaban is blamed for his death.
SS, there is a lot of truth to what you are saying, but the GOV so far has tried to refrain from 'crying wolf' too often, as not to lessen the importance of a very real and imminent attach. So until the Al Quada/Talaban and other terrorist are totally eliminated, looks like we will just remain under one continously.
But life means nothing to these terrorist - not even their own- as we all know, well, most everyone that has dealt with them anyways.
Sad part is, lots of Afghan citizens still love and support them, and they are not alone as recent posts to this thread will indicate. And they are not Afghan citizens.
No, the news is not filtered here in the USA, as we supply news to the world. Ben laden himself watches CNN on satelite from his tent.
You speak like CNN was the only news agncy in the world !
It was a problem during the gulf war when CNN was the only
one who was allowed to report, so the world only saw what
CNN wanted to report.
After 9-11 there was 11 Israelies captured who were involved
in the attack it was only in one american news paper and when suppressed and not reported by CNN.
If you belive that CNNs new reporting and what they choose not to report is unbiased you need to think again.
Bear,
There you go again ! Equating Israel with the USA, Do you think that Israel is part of the USA ? SPAMIsrael is our ally, same as Sweden. Israel is fiercely patrotic and has fought Terrorist since their very inception in 1947. SPAM
No one said CNN was the only news we have, better read my post again. But it is the one Ben Laden watches. Neither does the U.S.A have an 'Official News" like some other countries. On my CATV of 92 channels, there are atleast 12-15 full time news channels. On my C band satelite system, there are dozens of other full time news channels. We do not suffer from the 'lack' of news.
After the 9-11 attack, hundreds of suspects were arrested all around the world, Terrorists are not without their sympathizers- now are they ? One U.S.A citizen was captured - fighting along with the Talaban in Afghanistan. SPAM He was 'Abdul Hamid' - better know as JOHN PHILIP WALKER LINDH.
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UNITED STATES OF AMERICA (http://news.findlaw.com/hdocs/docs/terrorism/uswlindh11502cmp.html)
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Sad but true, there are Lindh's in every country, some may be on this forum. Sweden has lots of them too. Your schools have failed you, and the '' mind is a terrible thing to waste ' !
I simply don't understand you attitude and your hate for the USA and Israel and your glowing admiration for the Ben Ladens.
"There is none so blind as he who will not see".
Bear,
There you go again ! Equating Israel with the USA, Do you think that Israel is part of the USA ? SPAMIsrael is our ally, same as Sweden. Israel is fiercely patrotic and has fought Terrorist since their very inception in 1947. SPAM
I did not, I said Israelis were part of the attac 9-11
No one said CNN was the only news we have, better read my post again. But it is the one Ben Laden watches. Neither does the U.S.A have an 'Official News" like some other countries. On my CATV of 92 channels, there are atleast 12-15 full time news channels. On my C band satelite system, there are dozens of other full time news channels. We do not suffer from the 'lack' of news.
After the 9-11 attack, hundreds of suspects were arrested all around the world, Terrorists are not without their sympathizers- now are they ? One U.S.A citizen was captured - fighting along with the Talaban in Afghanistan. SPAM He was 'Abdul Hamid' - better know as JOHN PHILIP WALKER LINDH.
saw it on news SPAMyes.
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UNITED STATES OF AMERICA (http://news.findlaw.com/hdocs/docs/terrorism/uswlindh11502cmp.html)
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Sad but true, there are Lindh's in every country, some may be on this forum. Sweden has lots of them too. Your schools have failed you, and the '' mind is a terrible thing to waste ' !
I simply don't understand you attitude and your hate for the USA and Israel and your glowing admiration for the Ben Ladens.
"There is none so blind as he who will not see".
[/quote]
How can you interpret my posts as hate against USA ?
Or that I have a glowing amiration for Bin Laden ?
Seems like if on see things different than you it will be taken as hate.
"You can fool some people some of the time but not all of the people all the time"
Yes, we do see things very different, this thread started out as SPAMHappy 4th of July!!!, the day that we celebrate our independence from a tyrant. It is a very important day for us Americans, As we were wishing each other a safe and happy holiday, PRoZaK came on here and tried to throw ice water on our parade. He was rebuttled, then you came on here and compared the innocents in Afghanistan to the 9-11 victims. You also were rebuttled.
Not once did PRoZaK mention the 9-11 victims, not once have you expressed any disdain for Ben Laden or any other terrorists. But you have bent over backwards to defend him and his ilk.
Yes, we do see things different, if Sweden has an independence day and you are on here sending well wishes to your fellow countrymen, I sure as hell would not get on here and interfere or bad mouth your country in any way, and I really don't think any other American would.
The 4th of July is a very patriotic and important day for us, (U.S. We the people), you may wish to research why we celebrate it.
No, we don't try to hide or fool anyone, our country is the most open society on the face of the earth, the entire world sees our dirty linen as soon as it happens.
We also often have to 'go it' alone, as not many foreign nations- not even our allies will stand with us to smash dictators and terrorists like sadam and Ben Laden.
I see no need to continue posting comments to this thread as none so far have 'gotten through'.
But in the spirit, scope, and true intent of this thread, our day to rejoice freedom from a tyrant, let me quote words from an old Hymn, it is as much American as the Pioneers, covered wagons, wild wild west, the mighty mississippi, niagra falls, our first man on the moon, our mighty aircraft carriers, awsome submarines, our Armed Forces, men of insight, men of granite, knights in armor bent on chivalry.
As sung by Enya, Eva Cassidy and others:
"When tyrants tremble in their fear
and hear their death knell ringing,
when friends rejoice both far and near
how can I keep from singing?"
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To any future Presidents, Senators, Congressmen etc, on here. This entire thread is a study in 'Foreign Policy', SPAMsimply read the entire thread and duely note Bears and PRoZaK's responces, and you should readily discern why President Bush has trouble putting together a foreign coalition to help smash dictators/ terrorists etc.
Both Bear and PRoZaK pretty much reflect the views of their country and its leaders. This is a result of their schools, government, and their outlook on other countries. Nothing much will change this overnight.
Yes, we do see things very different, July 4th being our day to sing and rejoice our independence !
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As this post becomes ever more demanding to reply to amongst the both of you (Bear and Jinx) i feel that it is good that you two are announcing your differentiated opinions...furthermore...i feel that both of you are right in a sence, Jinx....im sure you already know this...but for all that do not....i would like someone on this forum to tell us a single time in which a different country set out of their own time and put forth effort into aiding America...there have been countless...countells times when America went out of their way to respond for a call of help in a different country...you ask for our help...we'll be there...but the fact that not a SINGLE damn country came to our aid in the events of 9-11-01 are very upseting and gut wrenching...its almost saying that we didnt do enought to our surrounding countrys in terms of help...that upsets me greaty...however...I, as and individual of the United States of America, am proud, just like every other American in this nation, to be a fellow American, and that statement alone gives me the adreniline to get up off my computer and fight for our country in our state of mouring...then i realize...that it is important to think back of the litterally millions of Americans that dedicated their lives to this country, to their home, to their passion. SPAMAnd i also thank the men and women who aid to the help of other countrys...but, you tell me, which is easier, giving an apple to a hungry person, or defending your school against shooters blaintly there to cause harm... SPAMthat is the point that i am trying to get across...and i do not wish to discontinue this thread...but to mearly express all of your opinions as long as it is not derogatory twards your fell NS members...but that the comments are about backing up our great country...
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Grinnin Reaper
07-06-2002, 08:47 PM
This thread continues to grow even after the 4th luckily we seem to have been able to celebrate in reasonable calm. SPAMThere were minor incidents but all in all it was a time of celebration. SPAMThe longer I live in the US the more pride I feel for this country. SPAMThe more pride I feel for having spent time defending my country. SPAMIt is a great land. SPAMFlawless it is not but many great qualities abide within our borders. SPAMJapan may make computers by the hundred today, but computers were invented in America. SPAMRussia may build aircraft, but the Wright brothers paved the way. SPAMYa'll can say whatever you want here, but free speech is a right of every American. SPAMSpeak your mind in Afganistan and you'll get stoned (and not with a bong). SPAMIf you truly feel stongly about something and you don't like the way it's being done, do something about and don't just set here and gripe. SPAMI defended my country and my rights and stand ready to do it again at any time. SPAMIf you truly feel the Afgan's need more food start a charity and help them. SPAMWe as American's have helped out in many countries around the world. SPAMAre we perfect? SPAMNo. SPAMBut were doing something to make the world a little better. SPAM
but the fact that not a SINGLE damn country came to our aid in the events of 9-11-01
I do not know what kind of aid you mean but sweden has
stopped all swedish citizens which were on the US list of
suspected terrorist (frozen their funds and so on) even if it
ment no fair trial or regular demands of proof it was done
just because you asked us.
I lived in the US for ten years (74-84) and have many good friends in the US.
I SPAMhave worked for city of Berkeley to get recycling going.
I have worked for the department of fish and game to clean
out destroyed creeks in carlifornia, creeks destroyed by
large money hungry companies with no regard for your
beautiful nature creeks so destroyd so the salmon could
not reach their spawning ground ! just to get redwood out
as cheap as possible ! Here is were my criticism belongs
against big money and big companies NOT AGAINST the
AMERICAN people, strange things like Enron funding Bushes
election campaign and in return getting many of their corrupt
people into government, it is a complex cituation and has
with war and oil interests to do.
If one has just a few dollars in ones pocket and maybe a few
dollars in the bank and some food to eat and place to sleep at
night one belongs to the 8% which is the richest in the world !
More than half of all countries amassed GNP is spent on
weapons and war machinery, I wonder if more of that money
is spent to make it better for everyone to keep them happy
and content, would there be a need for all those weapons ?
I hope that we all can work towards a better world with
less terror and starvation and better regard towards mother
nature.
Grinnin Reaper
07-07-2002, 07:01 AM
Freezing assests isn't just to help the US. SPAMEvery country that has participated in that is also helping the rest of the world. SPAMYou have to understand the enemy to understand why. SPAMSure their targeting America right now. SPAMWho's next? SPAMThe radical Muslim extremist are out to kill all that oppose them. SPAMThey'll kill their own countryman and fellow followers if they think it's the right thing to do. SPAMDo you want to follow them? SPAMIf you do you might survive till they expect you to go on a sucide run for them. SPAMIf your not with them your against them and eventually if they get their way we'll all end up dead. SPAMThey don't want to talk or work it out, they just want to kill. SPAMHelping the US would have been helping us dig out hundreds of dead. SPAMSome of them probably even your own countrymen. SPAMWe lost well over 300 Firefighters that ran in to pull out the Citizens from over 50 countries. SPAMWhen there are tragedies over seas we send rescue teams to help with the recovery. SPAMPeople in Afganistan where handing out candy and celebrating when the twin towers fell. SPAMQuite a diffrence in reaction isn't it. SPAMYet we will do all we can to help them. SPAMYou can say whatever you wish. SPAMI'm damn proud to be an American, and I'll continue to fight for her if need be.
The aid in which i was reffering to would be that of which we have done for many of the worlds countries when they were in need of: food, medical supply, warmth, and most of all...happiness. SPAMHere is were my criticism belongs
against big money and big companies NOT AGAINST the
AMERICAN people SPAMI realize that you have nothing agianst the American people...but i feel that there is no reason to be upset about our funds and finance. SPAMThis money is put to good use such as: Scholarships, Schools, Buildings, Paying well deserved employees who work hard for society, Grants, and even Happiness at times...this money is by no means put to bad use, rather these people have money because it is a way of reward twards there intelligence at what they do...(careers). Of course money is far from the most important thing, but i ask you this...why is America the richest country in the world? SPAMIts not because we're money hungry....its not because SPAMwe wanna feel power over the rest of the world...but i will leave you to answer that question...I too am proud....lets look at that word proud:
adj. proud·er, proud·est
Feeling pleasurable satisfaction over an act, possession, quality, or relationship by which one measures one's stature or self-worth: proud of one's child; proud to serve one's country.
Occasioning or being a reason for pride: “On January 1, 1900, Americans and Europeans greeted the twentieth century in the proud and certain belief that the next hundred years would make all things possible” (W. Bruce Lincoln).
Feeling or showing justifiable self-respect.
Filled with or showing excessive self-esteem.
Of great dignity; honored: a proud name.
Majestic; magnificent: proud alpine peaks.
Spirited. Used of an animal: proud steeds.
key words in this definition consist of self-respect, self-esteem, dignity, honored, majestic, and spirited...these words are some of the most powerful words a man will come across in his life...and these words are what many live by as well...
PowerWCRulez
07-07-2002, 11:24 PM
4 of July 226th birthday in the USA. My flag sticker on my power wheelchair and ride on the buses for FREE that day, they;re showing off the USA/Flag colorful of blue/white/red :)
A beautiful firework up in the air at State Capital ground and even fire dept trucks lined up to honor of 9/11 events.
after the event over and heading to the bus stops, there is too crowded lined up to the buses, a transit police protected me and clear the crowds on the way to the bus stop, the police tell regular passengers 'Stop, we're loading the wheelchair boarding first" and got onto bus, loading the passenger filling up the bus to maxium limits on the articaluted bus, on the way to my stop in minneapolis. Ahhh! I got home whew! it's pretty LONG ride for 11 miles!
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