Actually, Cik has had very good experiences with Shuttles, where they are just as fast as their full-sized counterparts.

Actually Vee_ess, I've never owned a Shuttle. You may be thinking of Accurate Image. He had a kick-ass shuttle a couple years back. But I do agree with you. Shuttles perform just as good as full-sized systems.

As far as the rest of this thread goes... PCI express is the future. However, right now it does not offer any performance increase what so ever. The current generations of video cards do not, and I repeat, do not take advantage of the capabilities of PCI express. Do a Google search for PCI-express video card reviews and you'll see. So buying an ATI X800 or nVidia 6800 PCI-E video card "right now" would be a waste of money. However, in the near future, it's going to be a different story because it's going to take some time for card mfgs to catch up. The current cards are just something they released because they wanted to have something out as soon as possible.

Regarding whether or not you need 64-bit applications or operating systems to take advantage of the AMD64 chip is absolute nonsense. I have two systems. A AMD64 3400+ and an AMD XP 3200+. Both have similar clock speeds and the AMD64 kicks the 3200's butt. 1MB cache makes a HUGE difference. Especially in benchmarking, I.E performance. The AMD64 chips weren't designed only for 64-bit apps, it was designed to perform well in both 32 and 64.

i cant believe im doing this, but i agree. just save for a while, and if by that time they havent comeout with something else you want more, get a fragbox. of course, i myself would go with 64 bit if not. solely because im more worried about how much it can do, as opposed to how how the framerate is while it does it. See? All-In-Wonder. of course.. i wouldnt recommend getting that specific one.. no matter what i do i have driver problems and BSODs.....

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VVVVV

Yes, True, The Fragbox does have both. BUT I don't know if its Nforce4. It might be some custom Mobo like Dell and Alienware make, just only Falcon-Northwest.. This is PCI-E/64-bit in its EARLY stages...(I do realize that 64-bit isnt in its early stage... but both of them together). PCI-E hasnt shown significant performance boosts over AGP... And no Software will be biased towards PCI-E because it wont get any sales because maybe in 2-3 years PCI-E wont be standard on Desktops. 64-bit is worth it.... PCI-E ain't..

an "enthusiast" doesn't talk about being cautious because something is in its early stages.. the enthusiast goes out and buys all the latest crap (SLI, 64bit, etc) without regard to thinking about what the ramifications might be...


that said, quit crying! Dell doesn't make their own boards either, they're intel boards with customized bios' with a dell logo on it...

Oh yeah, Cik, sorry I mixed yours and AI's systems up.

Dell's actually use Asus motherboards with Intel chipsets on them for the most part.

Well in that case Jason I would rather be a smart buyer than an "enthusiast" who flippently spends his money on anything with flashy lights in it.

But honestly... does socket 754 or 939 make a difference?

The major differences:

754: dual channel? no | Max/Best CPU: 3700+ | Has Future? no

939: dual channel? yes | Max/Best CPU: fx55/4000+ | Has Future? yes, a very solid one

also keep in mind that the pci-express chipsets are 939 only, and the new dual cores are 939 only. I picked 754 to save some cash.. I'm more into that "bang-for-the-buck", though you really cant go wrong with a 3500+ and a nice nforce3ultra/kt800 pro chipset.

hmm... two things..
napster - a smart buyer buys some pos dell and calls it good because that saves you a ton of money and you can do all the same things (except game) ... enough of that.

you really have to shell out for a decent 939 setup...

honestly, i'd wait until the centrino desktop chips get on their feet (more than one mobo) [or the amd equivelant if you like second hand stuff :P]