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afghanistan
urbanreflex

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After all that's been said and you post crap like that.  You said you were against big money corprate america but then you post jokes agains our military.  Being a former active and now inactive member of the same military you find humor against I'm deeply offended.  Europe would still be goose stepping to Hitler's orders in America hadn't bleed deeply for ya'll and that's how America gets repayed.  Typical.  American's have died for countless countries to help them gain their freedom for what.  So people like you can make fun of them.  You've got a lot of balls to happily post that crap.  Oh wait you have the right to do that don't you, why?  American's have fought and died around the globe to help people to be free.  You can say what you want but be aware that we will to.  I think that is a crock of shit!!  >:(

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Its more Corporate Internationnal allthough many is based in
America and often wars which the US is involved in is to
protect corporate interests not you your friends and neighbours or freedom.
And why does many americans have such a hard time taking
some criticism ?
The post was humorous and shouldn't be taken so seriously
and it joked about British soldiers covadice as well.
Lighten up.

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i got three things on my mind right now as i enter this thread..read the links...and read the posts...:1) is this in some way a branch off of my "Happy 4th of July" thread? 2)How is this tech related  ??? 3) Hey as long as one of those post had highlights on the WORLD CUP im all up for it and mearly ignore the rest...lol...anyway, to comment on the USA turnout...it was the best that USA did since 1930 and i give then ever credit that they desvere..being that Germany is a very competitive team...and USA only losing 1-0...next year they will prove themselves...but i know Brazil was gonna go all the way...the tema is "simply remarkable"

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Bear,
I think you have done everything you could to discredit Soccer Stud's  4th of July thread and post outlandish trash about our (USA) Armed Forces on this new thread.
You have come on here with the full audacity of the ungodly, making fun of everything American with an appalling display of flagrant disregard to our 4th of July holiday spirit, trying to paint Ben Ladin a good guy and US a bad guy. This violates every principle of common decency and rules of the road relating to common courtesy.
You have jumped sideways to keep from answering every question I previously asked you, so I will ask you some more.

1- Why do you have all this hostility and hate towards America ?
2- Why did you leave America and go back to Sweden after staying here all those years ?
3- Did the USA deport you ?
4- Did your visa expire and we would not renew it ?
5- Why did you come here in the first place ? And it was not to set up a recycling program, we have been recycling my entire lifetime.

If you will answer all those questions truthfully, then we will know what your problem is. The last person I encountered like you ( last year ) was from Holland, he pretty much did the same as you, then at question time he disappeared, but the facts revealed that he had applied for a visa to come here and was turned down so he was pissed enough to pull your tricks.
I think you were either deported or your visa was not renewed, so you are back in Sweden involuntary.  

Your non-chalant, blase, and lackadasical attitude towards us Americans after living here that long is tied to something like the above or, or it simply could be the way you were raised, your character, personality and the way you were taught at home and school, or it could be maybe you were dropped on your head as a baby, or abused as a child.

But I am DAMNED glad that you did NOT stay here, as you would not make a very good citizen - except maybe for the talaban.
It is bad enough to deal with you here in cyberspace, to have you here as a citizen would be a threat to our security. So hopefully you will stay in Sweden. Please do ! Your postings on the 4th of July thread and this one are despicable and dastardly.

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I just can't find humor in things such as that first link.  I haven't been nor have I ever heard FireFighter jokes especially since 9/11.  I should know I'm also a FireFighter.  People have enough respect for most Fire Dept. that they don't make jokes, because they are there to protect people and put their life on the line.  Yet the American soldier does the same thing just in a diffrent place against a diffrent threat and we find humor against them appropriate.  I don't buy it.  Everyone likes to make fun of the American soldier, many even hate him.  But who amoung you would take his place if called upon?

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[quote author=jinx link=board=general&num=1026038488&start=0#4 date=07/07/02 at 23:15:34]


1- Why do you have all this hostility and hate towards America ?
[/quote]
Criticism is NOT HOSTILITY
The way you guys respond is how a former soviet or chinese
commie or fascist will respond.
- no criticism allowed = immature.
My father died and my girlfriend wanted to see sweden.
NO
NO
To study, went to college in Nashville
When did your liftime begin ? this was 1975
[/quote]
And belive me, I think that what Bin Laden did was
totally wrong and with no regard whatsoever for
innocent people.
I'm sorry you get so stirred up from some criticism
and I know that many of my friends in the US have
about the same criticisms as mine, 2 faught in nam,
1 spent time in prison for not going but was pardoned
by Carter, 4 are jews  and the rest "regular" people
+ all my relatives, well one of my fathers cousines
were way up there in FBI he would probably have
different views.

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Nobody said you couldn't say what you want.  Just be aware we'll say what we want.  commie's would shot you for saying that.  That's kind of a far fetched comparison.  Beside's if someone came to your birthday party and ran you down would you hug them and buy them a beer or would you defend yourself?  Nobody has asked you to take back your comments nor have we asked that the links be brought down.  We just sure as hell made sure that we got to say what we want to.  And as far as immature I'm afraid that I'ld be better to keep my opinion to myself on that one.

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http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/allnews...l&siteid=50143

Another viewpoint on the US involvement in foreign affairs.

Just for interests sake

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Even if for some strange reason this is the oil industries fault (I don't believe it but I hear enough people gripe about it.)  The only way the oil industry can make money is people buy the products.  Do you drive a car or use electricity or any other type of technology?  If you do you help support the "evil oil industry" everyone blames for the problem.  Again everyone likes to complain but few do something about it.  The US did not provoke the killing of 3000 innocents by terrorists.  "Conspiracy theory" nuts can go off about all the evils of the US.  There is a lot that the public doesn't know and a lot that the public doesn't need to know.  Next time one of ya'll are overseas and see an opressive government killing people by the hundreds and were the ones that are stopping it tell me then the oil industry is driving that.

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[I can see I'm going to have to register ;)]

From my experience of American foreign policy, I wouldn't say that America (as a national entity) was 'evil' any more than any other country - it's the leaders of a country (at whatever level) who decide where a country goes (figuratively speaking), both abroad and at home.

If anything, it's the fact that Americans are so good natured (speaking from the P.o.V. of a foreigner) that gets them in trouble - I suspect that they see the best in whatever their government tells them and maybe aren't as skeptical (as a rule) of what's going on as other people might be of what the reasons are behind it all.

I think perhaps Americans underestimate the degree to which everything is a shade of grey - there is no black and white in international politics. Having said that, I think that a lot of English are like that too - I've seen several laws coming through our legislation that just horrify me, all in the name of 'anti-terrorism' or suchlike.

Ah well, what can you do... anyway, I certainly hope you all had a wonderful 4th of July, and may whatever god you believe in (if any) bless you all.

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Well, I sure wouldn't put much credibility in anything that dick head had to say about anything. He and Ben Laden appear to be singing from the same sheet of music. He doesn't have any impressive credentials, except to be an advisor to one of the weakest Presidents America has ever had.
Seeing as "The Federalist" gave him this weeks "Village Ignorati" Award:
______----********O********----______
VILLAGE IDIOTS

This week's "HomoPromo" Award: "We didn't want to select the penis as a logo for the gay community.  We have more respect for the gay community than that." --Dr. Peter Kerndt, Sexually Transmitted Disease Program chief for the Los Angeles Health Department, being a stand-up guy in refusing participation in a California program designed to increase awareness of syphilis outbreaks among homosexuals, which uses a cartoon penis infected with syphilis.
{}  This week's "Village Ignorati" Award: "So the contempt for
the American people has been made more vivid by the two Bushes than all of the presidents before them.  Although many of them had the same contempt.  But they were more clever about concealing it." --Gore Vidal  {}  This week's "Village Glitterati" Award: "I don't think those with a different point of view than mine should be forced to say the words 'under God' in public." --Martin Sheen
**Who's forcing?  {}  This week's "Gender Disorientation Disorder"
Award: "The most absurd part of my escape from the unjust system is that I have exchanged one system that suppresses free opinion for another." --Martina Navratilova, who escaped from Czechoslovakia at the age of 18 to become a U.S. "citizen" collecting many U.S. dollars to buy a soapbox to complain about the defeat of Teddy Kennedy's legislation to single out homosexuals for civil rights class distinction.  **A chronic case of "tennis envy"!
{} From the "Village Academic Curriculum" File: The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill is requiring 3,500 incoming freshmen read a book on the Qur'an: "The Early Revelations."  The ACLU's Seth Jaffe noted, "We are keeping an eye on it, but so far it does not seem to be problematic."  Would Mr. Jaffe have a problem if UNC required all its incoming freshmen to read the Bible?
--------
Now as far as mid east oil is concerned, he obviously isn't up to date at all. The U.S. now only imports about 35 percent of its oil from the persian gulf states, as compared to about 75-80 percent when Jimmy Carter was President and the oil embargo fiasco.
President Puten has been begging President Bush to sign an oil treaty with Russia which appears imminent. Russia has plenty of oil and wants to sell it to us for the U.S. hard currency it needs along with the billions of foreign aid we are giving it. All foreign countries want and need the U.S. Dollar, even Red China, North Korea and others. Hadn't you rather have them than Euros ?
Also South American countries are trying to sell us oil. When Russia and S America sign on with oil, then what ? Plus we are now drilling for oil in previously restricted areas.
I didn't see that post as anything except 'more of the same'.
But here is you some truthful reading from some of the brightest minds in the world !
----------
The
Federalist
----------
Yes, by all means, please register, we would love to have you on here, different views and all. Glad you took note of our Birthday !

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Wykid why don't you just go ahead and sign up.  We won't always agree with you but then again if we always agreed this place would suck.  Diffrence of opinion is nessasary for seeing all points.  Hopefully we can use this to become more enlightened.  Just be aware we won't hold our tongue. ;D

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Wykid,
Your last paragraph says it all. Why would an athiest show up as a guest on a U.S. 4th of July celebration thread - and challenge the statement as referenced ?  It's probally an exercise in futility to remind you what the 4th of July, the Declaration Of Independence, The U.S. Constitution all has in common with God, you should read them all and note the times God is used.
No One that I am aware of - heretofore expressed any religious preference -except you ! Your preference is Athiest,  You did not have to express that. It should have been left for another day !
The major difference between "The Federalist" and "Gore Vidal" is the facts, the federalist backs up everything it states with hard facts, you can't find them wrong, but you probally couldn't find Gore Vidal right. Balance ? is to the eye of the beholder.
Do have a good day !.

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but Jinx, YOU were the first one to bring the issue of an individual's religious beliefs (or lack thereof) into the argument, were you not?  ??? and I quote "You have come on here with the full audacity of the ungodly, making fun of everything American ..." Did he mention religion somewhere I didnt see or what? If so, then I apologise for questioning it, but otherwise, I don't see why the 'ungodly' have any more audacity than the religious.

Re the original point of this topic (which was the US military for those who got lost along the way!) it is hard to argue the fact that the American military has recently become rather infamous amongst its allies for recurring 'friendly-fire' accidents. In their defence however, it may be rather inevitable given the modern predilection for long-range (and therefore impersonal) destructive weapons, which mean that you can shoot at someone (or bomb them etc) without having seen them! Also possibly partly because the US is involved a lot in international conflicts compared to some other countries.

I dunno, what do you guys think?

I've registered by the way :D

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Nice to see you signed up.  And I think your right the US Military is in more places.  If you make up 90% of the force chances are you'll make 9 times as many mistakes.  It just a matter of simple math.  95% of the mistakes are made by white males but then again they make up about 95% of the military. (don't quote me on that I don't have hard facts to back it up  ;D).  

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Wykid,
Yes I did, but as not to continue beating a dead horse, I am not sure you completely read this original thread " Happy 4th of July" by Soccer_Stud , go here:
-------
Happy 4th of July!!!  

---------
Then Bear posted this thread and it was more or less continued. Then you more or less picked up where he stopped. That reference was to Bear, since he totally ignored everything we Americans hold dear.
No one can seperate the Declaration of Independence from God, too many references exists. That document is why we celebrate the 4th of July.
Now back to your dissatifaction of me using those words, the Declaration of Independence, the U.S. Constitution and a multitude and myraid of other 'individual rights and priviledges' gives us U.S. Citizens the right and priviledge of free speech.

Neither do I leave God at home when I visit this forum, and when I must, I will NOT need to be here. I covered Bears attitude and used that expression, I will not change it, read all the postings up to this one, again you are the only one  expression a religious preference or lack thereof.
I have never seen religion or the lack of religion as a topic of discusion here, and it was not a topic as used, but to describe the attitude of someone whom 'thumbed his nose' at the very document that a great many Americans believe to be 'Holy Inspired".  Plus the document is self explanatory should you wish to read it.
Bear has not responded to it, don't know why you would- except maybe the Athiest in you cringes at the very sight of this word. Only you know for sure.

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OK, I've reread the 4th of July post, with special reference to posts made by 'bear', and I've got to say I can't see where he was ridiculing the celebration of American pride. Perhaps it's because I'm not American that I can't understand why you seem to have taken his posts (and increasingly mine?) in the wrong tone.

I think several of his comments were quite accurate, and I don't believe that if pointed at my country I would take them in the wrong spirit - hard to say I know given that they AREN'T pointed at my country, but I'd like to think I can take criticism of my country's policies with a bit of diplomacy. ;) Sure, we've made mistakes (the UK I'm talking about now) - God knows the whole American thing was one of them, and we've made several (thousand) since...

I think the important thing is not simply to ignore any criticism levelled at your country, nor to deny it point blank, but to take it onboard and think for yourself. Fair enough if you don't agree with it, but that doesn't necessarily make it untrue, nor even if it is untrue does it make the person who says it a terrorist/traitor/liar/etc - simply someone with a different viewpoint from yours.

Isn't America supposed to celebrate diversity? 'All men created equal' - does that not allow for a variety of opinion on matters? If we only allow one viewpoint, then we destroy innovation and change. I'm not in any way saying that what 'bear' says is more valid than your viewpoint, simply that you shouldn't immediately discount him as 'the enemy', whatever that may mean.

I have no requirement to discuss any more religious points so I think if you can leave the religious aspect of American policy out of it, I can! :)

Gotta get to bed - sorry if any of this is unintelligible but have had a few  :-*

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the recent posts above are way past my magnitude for me to be competing with all of this....i do have to say however that this has been one of the most detailed and descriptive thread that i have come across since i have joined these forums...i will continue to follow the progress of this thread as it is a very opinionated thread.  I hope that you guys will continue this thread as i like to discover the different and interesting points that each one of you have brought up, might i add that they are both thorough and well put together...i just hope that this thread will not part any of the members here...as the thread that parted Mighty_Chef did. Sorry if i had broke up the climax of this thread...but i just felt like getting my word in this thread as well. thx.

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A good discussion (heated or not;)) is good for the soul ... or something. Anyway, I'm having a good time, and I'm finding everything said here is extremely interesting, so I for one vote to keep talking :D

I certainly don't mean to cause any offense with any comments so I hope they'll be taken in a friendly spirit. I wouldn't see any point in continuing to talk about things if people were getting angry as when that happens you lose rationality. So if we can keep as calm and collected as we have so far, I don't see any problems.  :-*

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[quote author=jinx link=board=general&num=1026038488&start=15#17 date=07/11/02 at 17:28:12]
That reference was to Bear, since he totally ignored everything we Americans hold dear.
[/quote]
I cannot not see how you can say that !

The first comment on 4th of July thread I made was:
Glad you made it through and no attempts was made to
destroy your day !
As many innocent people were killed sept 11th as
innocent people killed were in Afghanistan during the bombings to fight the terrorist even if some measures
were taken to avoid it.

Just pointing out that it is not only innocent Americans
who have suffered from the 9-11 incident.

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staight forward....to the point...well put, both comments on here have obvioulsly escelladed to a descent point i might add...hope it continues to be valid in pure opinion and not get to the point of hatred!  ;) 8)

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I found that to be  hollow and caloused comparison, with you knowing full well that had there not been a 9-11 terrorist attack, there would be no retaliation to Afghanistan, no innocents killed by the USA. As previously stated, the 9-11 was a deliberate action to target innocents.
Also you said nothing about or expressed any concern whatsoever to the thousands- probally hundreds of thousands of 'innocent afghanistan' women and children that were murdered, tortured, maimed and enslaved by this bunch of cut-throats, the talaban, before we put them mostly out of that type business.
So thanks to the U.S. Forces, the talaban is not in the innocent/children/fellow citizen/baby torturing business any more.
Wouldn't hurt for you to read about the murder and torture of innocents that they did to control the country.
---------
Fact Sheet on Al Qaeda and Taliban Atrocities
---------

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Ill have to agree with you there jinx, the Taliban have killed many many more innocent civillians of their homeland then any US troops have ever done and i think that the two numbers just cant compare in number...this i feel is a ver sick, twisted, demented "pride" that the Taliban posses...and i hope that some day they will realize what kinda of hell they bring to the people each and every day...and that some day this will all be put in the past...i feel...however...that that day will not come soon at all....sadly  :(

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[quote author=jinx link=board=general&num=1026038488&start=15#23 date=07/12/02 at 19:20:42]

Also you said nothing about or expressed any concern whatsoever to the thousands- probally hundreds of thousands of 'innocent afghanistan' women and children that were murdered, tortured, maimed and enslaved by this bunch of cut-throats, the talaban, before we put them mostly out of that type business.
So thanks to the U.S. Forces, the talaban is not in the innocent/children/fellow citizen/baby torturing business any more. [/quote]

I think the problem is that the US Forces etc helped put the Taliban into power in the first place.

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That could be somewhat correct, but in your own words- why not leave that topic for another day, or a new thread ?

My comments as you quoted were dealing with Bear, whom obviously couldn't seem to shed a single solitary tear for the Talaban murdered innocents of their own citizens, but wanted to get on here instead and ' cry us up a river ' over the few innocents that U.S. Forces may have killed (after the talaban deliberately placed them in harms way) on their way to smash Ben Ladens ass and run him under the rock to which he is now hiding !

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I'm just trying to say, don't paint the US forces as an all-singing all-dancing patriotic fun-fest of light and goodness, when they are not. Just as the UK forces have done bad things for our government, so have yours.

I'm not trying to play down the Towers thing, nor am I pretending that the Taleban were not lacking in most of the common decency we take for granted, so don't start down that road.

However it is definitely that the US forces in Afghanistan (and elsewhere too) have been a bit indiscriminate with their bombs etc - wedding anyone? I am saying (as I suspect Bear is too) that perhaps more emphasis should be placed on ensuring that bombers etc are where they should be. I believe a little too much emphasis is placed on technology, when instead the pilots/etc should be thinking a bit more for themselves sometimes.

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I wouldn't get too 'teary eyed' over that 'wedding incident' because the air strikes were called in by Afghan and U.S. forces that had had that area under surveilance for many months. The talaban was reported firing on the U.S aircraft by local residents before they were hit. The talaban uses any excuse to fire on U.S. Forces and the wedding was an excellant facade.

Think about it, it was very remote village, where even food and neccessities are hard to get in. Now they were firing some pretty large guns, looked to me like a 3 inch. Do you know how much shells weigh for that size gun and how much they cost ? To blow all that on a wedding ?  As hard as they are to comeby? The Talaban is schooled very well on how to use the press to their advantage. Go figure !
----------
Preliminary Afghan Bombing Investigation Ends
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Don't quite know where you get your information from, but anyway... this is hardly the only example of friendly fire incidents by american forces. Saw the in-air footage of the American aircrew shooting up a British convoy of APCs in Desert Storm myself.

I think that was the point of this whole thread anyway, so let's drop the 4th of July bit in here.

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Most of my info was provided in the link as posted at the bottom of my responce, ( U.S. Dept. Of State ) should you have clicked on it and read it, the rest was from the CBS Evening News with Dan Rather.
Well now, you could have fooled me, about the point of this whole thread, I thought it was to discredit and ridicule the U.S. Armed Forces. As a refresher to you, go here to Bear's link - the very first word in this thread:
-----------
afghanistan
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Re: More stuff from urbanreflex.com
 

I did read it. I was talking about the bit about the wedding being a facade (which it may or may not have been), and the 3-inch guns (?). Didn't see any of that in there.

Anyway, I think the point of this thread was to remind you (in a humorous way, which you obviously missed completely) that you've got to stop getting carried away with your big toys, because in real life (ie not in the little training sandbox) people get hurt... usually someone else. OK?

PS and where is there anything in that writeup (Bear's) that isn't a perfectly legitimate statement? Every line was perfectly plausible (even if I'm sure the Defence Secretary didn't actually make those statements).

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I said the rest came from the CBS Evening News, almost every news service in America questioned the part about the guns being fired as a wedding climax. I saw the guns on various news services, correspondents were reporting from the village there.
The U.S. Dept Of State link said it all about the Talibans/Al Quada connections and real intent there.
Again you read something not stated, this is what I said:
----------
"The talaban uses any excuse to fire on U.S. Forces and the wedding was an excellant facade."
----------

No, I saw absolutely no humor in the thread and were you not ignoring the 10-15 thousand American, British and other citizens that got hurt or killed in the WTC attack ? Everything I have said about 'innocents' seemed to have went right over your head.
Keep in mind that our U.S. Armed Forces are designed to beat the shit out of an enemy, and that is just what to hell they will do when fired upon !
Whether or not you and Bear like it or not - is a moot point. The Taliban/Al-Quada is 'our' enemy and should be yours too and so far you and Bear both have put up a fight just to defend them !
Now if you have proof that the Talibin/Al Quada were NOT firing on our aircraft, please show it !  The U.S.State Dept link I provided proves that they were and by those that really should know, the local village residents.

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When did I defend the Taleban?

Why don't you learn to read posts instead of just spouting off on one for once?

I agree the US forces are designed to (as you so eloquently put it) 'beat the shit out of an enemy', but that's NOT all they do, is it? They're constantly bombing / shooting / killing friendly forces (and I'm not talking about Afghani/Pakistani civilians) - for instance... the British lost more men to AMERICAN forces than any enemy in Desert Storm.

I'm saying that you should all grow up and use your power responsibly instead of being such childish little arseholes and messing about with your big toys... this isn't a playground.

And if you can't take criticism of your country, perhaps you should leave the international politics to the big boys.

Perhaps I've made myself a bit clearer this time, or would you like to completely misunderstand everything that's been said ... again?

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This is my last post on this thread, Wykid only came here to take up where Bear left off, totally ignoring all facts presented. He did speak for Bear several times as if 'empowered ' to do so.

Obscenities have always been a small mind expressing itself. Anyone with a reasonable IQ can read Wykids responces and very readily discern his character and personality.

This is a Computer Help Forum and the 'General Board' is an adjunct for general discussions but I think this one has taxed everyone enough, as Wykid's last post above only demonstrates the mindset that America is up against. Bear introduced this thread and Wykid continued it, nothing else needs to be said.

My hearing aid is turned off.  

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*** **** **** *******

-Keep it to the topic; making a personal attack is not going to convince anyone.

vee_ess

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-Wykid1-
          I am not backing anybody up here...i am mearly talkin for myself when i say that you should back off...this forum is not here to ridecule or harrass others in such a vulgar manner...100% of your posts on this forum are on this thread alone...yet half are putting down oposing opinions that you have came across and the people that have said them...i dont see the purpose of joining such a great forum just to stick to your opinions and not let others have a word ( or in this case, reading what they have to say, and expressing your thoughts aloud), these forums consist of OPINIONS and yes it may get a bit tense around her but there is no reason to say:and there was purely no need for:
with this being said i remind you that this is a branch off of my post and i wish not to "drop the 4th of July bit" because i posted that to celebrate....the "pursuit of happiness" mearly because this is what this country does...simple as that.  At this time i wish that i was a moderator, for you rude comments would be no more, but unfortunatley, i do not have the power as of yet...and i hope that you dont mess up the new formus with this trash talk, but instead, grow up..thank you
and remeber...I just edited wykids response, that's all -Uran

Re: More stuff from urbanreflex.com
 

I stand by every word I said - if you look, he used a swear word first, so I thought it was fair game.

Your 4th of July thread was perfectly acceptable, and I have no wish to put down the sentiments echoed in that thread, but this is NOT that thread, so I felt it was entirely appropriate to leave any discussion re the 4th of July to your own thread.

And how come I'm not allowed to have an opinion (quite acceptable in any other area and IIRC enshrined in your oh-so-fabled 1st Amendment), and yet he is. It's simply because I don't agree with his/(your?) 'Americans can do no wrong because we're so damn cool' attitude, right?

It appears to be the standard 'Any opinion is OK so long as it's ours' argument that I see so often. Pity - I thought we could have a half-decent discussion, but instead it's just a flag-waving exercise. Ever think that maybe it's your attitude to everyone else that makes them pissed off at you?

When even the countries that are supposed to be your allies laugh about your antics, perhaps it's you that needs to re-analyse your behaviour.


And yes, I think I may have changed my mind... maybe your military IS ridiculous.

Re: More stuff from urbanreflex.com
 

I'd just like to say before I leave this interesting board, that I came here in good faith, to have a discussion with people I thought had a sense of humour and the ability to look at things from both sides, but I have seen little of this, so I'm off to discuss things with rational persons, elsewhere.

And if you think I'm obviously one to rant off on one whenever someone disagrees with me, you should see some of our discussions on the board no spamming(by: vee_ess). They're generally quite intelligent and we don't ridicule each other or dismiss anyone's opinion out of hand. Perhaps some of you should take notes.

Re: More stuff from urbanreflex.com
 

I never deleted any of your cursing (people often use that to emphasize their points)...only personally offensive material.
[quote author=Wykid1 link=board=general&num=1026038488&start=30#37 date=07/17/02 at 12:36:42]
I stand by every word I said - if you look, he used a swear word first, so I thought it was fair game.[/quote]
We saved your revered Churchill and his backward attacks, and in effect, allowed you to keep your ways. You wouldn't even be able to even comprehend this thread if your people would have become opressed like Hitler had wanted.
[quote author=Wykid1 link=board=general&num=1026038488&start=30#37 date=07/17/02 at 12:36:42]And yes, I think I may have changed my mind... maybe your military IS ridiculous.[/quote]

[quote author=Wykid1 link=board=general&num=1026038488&start=30#38 date=07/17/02 at 12:43:47]
They're generally quite intelligent and we don't ridicule each other or dismiss anyone's opinion out of hand. Perhaps some of you should take notes.
[/quote]
Well, as soccer_stud pointed out, you were actually the one ridiculing, as none of the others were making jabs at other posters...maybe you should take note.