You shouldn't be down on people who want to learn. They may be misconstrued. I would be what you would call a newbie. I have little initiative either unless I have a goal in mind. I have a great interest in network security and would like to work in a field of such measure... Yet certain people have varied ways of doing things. Not all people pick up things as easy as others nor do they keep trying due to outside influences at times. If someone asks a question I believe he deserves an answer. someone who doesn't ask is what I consider dumb. I've looked for someone to mentor me in meer basics and yet still am yet to find anyone with the skills to attempt it. Due to I don't have the knowledge required. People would not ask if they had the knowledge required. Well that's my say. Great forum by the way.