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[I can see I'm going to have to register ]

From my experience of American foreign policy, I wouldn't say that America (as a national entity) was 'evil' any more than any other country - it's the leaders of a country (at whatever level) who decide where a country goes (figuratively speaking), both abroad and at home.

If anything, it's the fact that Americans are so good natured (speaking from the P.o.V. of a foreigner) that gets them in trouble - I suspect that they see the best in whatever their government tells them and maybe aren't as skeptical (as a rule) of what's going on as other people might be of what the reasons are behind it all.

I think perhaps Americans underestimate the degree to which everything is a shade of grey - there is no black and white in international politics. Having said that, I think that a lot of English are like that too - I've seen several laws coming through our legislation that just horrify me, all in the name of 'anti-terrorism' or suchlike.

Ah well, what can you do... anyway, I certainly hope you all had a wonderful 4th of July, and may whatever god you believe in (if any) bless you all.

Well, I sure wouldn't put much credibility in anything that dick head had to say about anything. He and Ben Laden appear to be singing from the same sheet of music. He doesn't have any impressive credentials, except to be an advisor to one of the weakest Presidents America has ever had.
Seeing as "The Federalist" gave him this weeks "Village Ignorati" Award:
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VILLAGE IDIOTS

This week's "HomoPromo" Award: "We didn't want to select the penis as a logo for the gay community.  We have more respect for the gay community than that." --Dr. Peter Kerndt, Sexually Transmitted Disease Program chief for the Los Angeles Health Department, being a stand-up guy in refusing participation in a California program designed to increase awareness of syphilis outbreaks among homosexuals, which uses a cartoon penis infected with syphilis.
{}  This week's "Village Ignorati" Award: "So the contempt for
the American people has been made more vivid by the two Bushes than all of the presidents before them.  Although many of them had the same contempt.  But they were more clever about concealing it." --Gore Vidal  {}  This week's "Village Glitterati" Award: "I don't think those with a different point of view than mine should be forced to say the words 'under God' in public." --Martin Sheen
**Who's forcing?  {}  This week's "Gender Disorientation Disorder"
Award: "The most absurd part of my escape from the unjust system is that I have exchanged one system that suppresses free opinion for another." --Martina Navratilova, who escaped from Czechoslovakia at the age of 18 to become a U.S. "citizen" collecting many U.S. dollars to buy a soapbox to complain about the defeat of Teddy Kennedy's legislation to single out homosexuals for civil rights class distinction.  **A chronic case of "tennis envy"!
{} From the "Village Academic Curriculum" File: The University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill is requiring 3,500 incoming freshmen read a book on the Qur'an: "The Early Revelations."  The ACLU's Seth Jaffe noted, "We are keeping an eye on it, but so far it does not seem to be problematic."  Would Mr. Jaffe have a problem if UNC required all its incoming freshmen to read the Bible?
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Now as far as mid east oil is concerned, he obviously isn't up to date at all. The U.S. now only imports about 35 percent of its oil from the persian gulf states, as compared to about 75-80 percent when Jimmy Carter was President and the oil embargo fiasco.
President Puten has been begging President Bush to sign an oil treaty with Russia which appears imminent. Russia has plenty of oil and wants to sell it to us for the U.S. hard currency it needs along with the billions of foreign aid we are giving it. All foreign countries want and need the U.S. Dollar, even Red China, North Korea and others. Hadn't you rather have them than Euros ?
Also South American countries are trying to sell us oil. When Russia and S America sign on with oil, then what ? Plus we are now drilling for oil in previously restricted areas.
I didn't see that post as anything except 'more of the same'.
But here is you some truthful reading from some of the brightest minds in the world !
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The
Federalist
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Yes, by all means, please register, we would love to have you on here, different views and all. Glad you took note of our Birthday !

Wykid why don't you just go ahead and sign up.  We won't always agree with you but then again if we always agreed this place would suck.  Diffrence of opinion is nessasary for seeing all points.  Hopefully we can use this to become more enlightened.  Just be aware we won't hold our tongue. ;D

Wykid,
Your last paragraph says it all. Why would an athiest show up as a guest on a U.S. 4th of July celebration thread - and challenge the statement as referenced ?  It's probally an exercise in futility to remind you what the 4th of July, the Declaration Of Independence, The U.S. Constitution all has in common with God, you should read them all and note the times God is used.
No One that I am aware of - heretofore expressed any religious preference -except you ! Your preference is Athiest,  You did not have to express that. It should have been left for another day !
The major difference between "The Federalist" and "Gore Vidal" is the facts, the federalist backs up everything it states with hard facts, you can't find them wrong, but you probally couldn't find Gore Vidal right. Balance ? is to the eye of the beholder.
Do have a good day !.

but Jinx, YOU were the first one to bring the issue of an individual's religious beliefs (or lack thereof) into the argument, were you not?  ??? and I quote "You have come on here with the full audacity of the ungodly, making fun of everything American ..." Did he mention religion somewhere I didnt see or what? If so, then I apologise for questioning it, but otherwise, I don't see why the 'ungodly' have any more audacity than the religious.

Re the original point of this topic (which was the US military for those who got lost along the way!) it is hard to argue the fact that the American military has recently become rather infamous amongst its allies for recurring 'friendly-fire' accidents. In their defence however, it may be rather inevitable given the modern predilection for long-range (and therefore impersonal) destructive weapons, which mean that you can shoot at someone (or bomb them etc) without having seen them! Also possibly partly because the US is involved a lot in international conflicts compared to some other countries.

I dunno, what do you guys think?

I've registered by the way

Nice to see you signed up.  And I think your right the US Military is in more places.  If you make up 90% of the force chances are you'll make 9 times as many mistakes.  It just a matter of simple math.  95% of the mistakes are made by white males but then again they make up about 95% of the military. (don't quote me on that I don't have hard facts to back it up  ;D).  

Wykid,
Yes I did, but as not to continue beating a dead horse, I am not sure you completely read this original thread " Happy 4th of July" by Soccer_Stud , go here:
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Happy 4th of July!!!  

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Then Bear posted this thread and it was more or less continued. Then you more or less picked up where he stopped. That reference was to Bear, since he totally ignored everything we Americans hold dear.
No one can seperate the Declaration of Independence from God, too many references exists. That document is why we celebrate the 4th of July.
Now back to your dissatifaction of me using those words, the Declaration of Independence, the U.S. Constitution and a multitude and myraid of other 'individual rights and priviledges' gives us U.S. Citizens the right and priviledge of free speech.

Neither do I leave God at home when I visit this forum, and when I must, I will NOT need to be here. I covered Bears attitude and used that expression, I will not change it, read all the postings up to this one, again you are the only one  expression a religious preference or lack thereof.
I have never seen religion or the lack of religion as a topic of discusion here, and it was not a topic as used, but to describe the attitude of someone whom 'thumbed his nose' at the very document that a great many Americans believe to be 'Holy Inspired".  Plus the document is self explanatory should you wish to read it.
Bear has not responded to it, don't know why you would- except maybe the Athiest in you cringes at the very sight of this word. Only you know for sure.

OK, I've reread the 4th of July post, with special reference to posts made by 'bear', and I've got to say I can't see where he was ridiculing the celebration of American pride. Perhaps it's because I'm not American that I can't understand why you seem to have taken his posts (and increasingly mine?) in the wrong tone.

I think several of his comments were quite accurate, and I don't believe that if pointed at my country I would take them in the wrong spirit - hard to say I know given that they AREN'T pointed at my country, but I'd like to think I can take criticism of my country's policies with a bit of diplomacy. Sure, we've made mistakes (the UK I'm talking about now) - God knows the whole American thing was one of them, and we've made several (thousand) since...

I think the important thing is not simply to ignore any criticism levelled at your country, nor to deny it point blank, but to take it onboard and think for yourself. Fair enough if you don't agree with it, but that doesn't necessarily make it untrue, nor even if it is untrue does it make the person who says it a terrorist/traitor/liar/etc - simply someone with a different viewpoint from yours.

Isn't America supposed to celebrate diversity? 'All men created equal' - does that not allow for a variety of opinion on matters? If we only allow one viewpoint, then we destroy innovation and change. I'm not in any way saying that what 'bear' says is more valid than your viewpoint, simply that you shouldn't immediately discount him as 'the enemy', whatever that may mean.

I have no requirement to discuss any more religious points so I think if you can leave the religious aspect of American policy out of it, I can!

Gotta get to bed - sorry if any of this is unintelligible but have had a few  :-*

[MIK3]

the recent posts above are way past my magnitude for me to be competing with all of this....i do have to say however that this has been one of the most detailed and descriptive thread that i have come across since i have joined these forums...i will continue to follow the progress of this thread as it is a very opinionated thread.  I hope that you guys will continue this thread as i like to discover the different and interesting points that each one of you have brought up, might i add that they are both thorough and well put together...i just hope that this thread will not part any of the members here...as the thread that parted Mighty_Chef did. Sorry if i had broke up the climax of this thread...but i just felt like getting my word in this thread as well. thx.