to all the posts about Bush...

[Aemon_]

yes, you're right, President Bush wants nothing to do with hydrogen fuel cell powered vehicles.

http://www.eere.energy.gov/hydrogena...nitiative.html

later

[Dragon]

nice one aemon, thwarting the uninformed!

EDIT: i didnt know that either by the way.

[Prometheus]

1.2 billion only to H fuel cars. We need more if we are going to change a standard.

[Dragon]

dont you think you should research it thouroughly first before throwing it into mainstream circulation? anyways, as always.. theres never enough money in any situation.

[Aemon_]

1.2 billion only? thats alot of money pro. and if he is such a money grubbing, republican, oil tycoon - why is he alotting any money at all to hydrogen research? its gonna take a long time to change standards, no matter how much money you dump into it. how long have we been using gasoline?

later

[Dragon]

pwnt pwned owned. how should i spell it?

[vee_ess]

I'd say pzoned but the whole Pizza Hut thing is over. Anyways, hyrdogen fuel cells are nothing more than a waste of money. No real benefits.... I'm just waiting for tons uninformed responses...

[Jason425]

yea ok water vapor vs smog... + global warming.. + all the crap that comes with both... smooth one vee.. nothing uninformed about that what I said..

[vee_ess]

Before I get started, let me first make sure we all understand that hydrogen power is not an actual source of energy but rather an energy storage device. This is because we get hydrogen from molecules and the extraction requires energy. The two primary sources for hydrogen are natural gas and water. It requires extremely high amounts of energy to extract hydrogen from water (electrolysis). Where do you think this electricity comes from? According to the DOE, 70.6% came from fossil fuels and another 20.0% came from nuclear energy, both sources being horrible polluters.

That being said, I am certain you can understand that hydrogen fuel cells do not eliminate the smog, but just creates it at the power factories rather than the vehicle itself. Also, automobiles contribute roughly a fifth of the total pollution while half of the pollution comes from industrial applications. So in addition to keeping the same amount of smog, we'll throw in enough water vapor to cause low level clouds. With wator having an extremely high specific heat, roughly 9 times that of iron, it is sure to have drastic effects environmentally.

With respect to the global warming issue, not only do the sources of hydrogen produce more heat than we'd need if we used those sources directly for energy, but we'll have other heat issues along the way. That includes heat being made from the machines that compress the hydrogen.

Keep the arguments for hydrogen coming, I like showing why hydrogen fuel is evil.

[Jason425]

From http://www.hydrogennow.org/Facts/Sources.htm

Sources of Hydrogen

Hydrogen is now made from natural gas (methane), petroleum, coal, various chemical reactions, and from biomass (landfill waste, wastewater sludge, and livestock waste). It can also be made from water by electrolysis.

Hydrogen can be made from renewable resources, such as wind or solar.

Hydrogen is currently made primarily from natural gas (methane), which is non-renewable.

Methane is a recycled fuel (and therefore renewable) when made by anaerobic digestion of biomass.

Hydrogen production from hydrocarbons can also produce carbon, which in some forms has ten times the strength of steel. With some research this carbon could be used for automobile bodies and structural members.