MP3s, I Think

Hello all. I'm new here. My status might be called 'permanent newbie', since I don't have anyone around to help me out with stuff and I don't have the ability to absorb computer/ program knowledge just from looking at it the way a lot of folks do.

I had no idea my simple desire to buy an encoder would lead to the morass it has. I have been burning CDs with Nero (on all of the default settings, obviously) since about October of last year, when I bought my P4 and all of the hardware I have. I'm running windows xp home edition and I've got a Plextor 24/40/10A and an ASUS dvd player. I've got plenty of ram to do whateve I need to do, at 512 megs (SDRAM).

When I asked on the Zeropaid discussion forum (I think it was. I'm always hopping around from forum to forum.) about the confusing order form for the MP3 encoder that Ahead presents you with (I emailed Ahead/ Nero too, but received no reply.), I received a lot of answers - and little by way of 'explanation', as is usual. But one respondent noted that encoding to mp3 files wasn't the best way to go in order to get the best quality of audio. I'm sure he's right. But his info wasn't informative.

I also asked about mp3 vs mp3 pro. Getting someone to tell me in plain English 'explanation' which was better quality, ignoring other considerations like file size was like pulling teeth. I continued to read around, of course, and finally, I read a clear statement to the effect that mp3 pro files are better quality, period.

I also asked about whether there were some free encoders available. I was told yes and was given all kinds of suggestions (EAC for example, which I downloaded and can't for the life of me figure out how to use). As I started to look into all of this, I realized that I still didn't grasp some of the basics. But I quite like an essay that was linked to in one forum I was in. It was actually - explanatory! That was at Hardwareavenue.com.

But now that I'm clear that, at least where mp3 files are concerned, I need to first do a good job of ripping, 'before' I encode, I find that I'm getting over my head. I've tried to shoot for acquiring (for free or for pay) the software that will give me the best quality product, but which I, as a newbie, can still operate. But it's looking like I've got to dumb down to 'crappy' product just in order to be able to have a product.

Audiograbber looks like the ripper I need, with it's user-friendly interface (reportedly). Then I read that I needed to use something else :-( to encode, and Lame seems to be the prog. Then on the Lame site, I read that using Lame isn't something a newbie wants to try. Then I read that some software 'uses' Lame. I'm not sure whether that means some software (Audiograbber is listed) 'automatically' uses Lame to encode.

And we are just into the mp3 files here, which, as I noted, someone said isn't the best route to go for the best audio quality.

Help!

ps
I'm using Winamp 2.80, which uses the Fhg (Is that right?) default. Reading around in these sites, I learned that what I want is to download/install a MAD plug in for Winamp. Does anyone have any idea whether I should do that? Should I upgrade first to Winamp 3? I've read around on the Winamp forums to try to get a sense of whether Winamp 3 is a good idea or not. I got only ambiguity from the folks talking about the subject there. And the sample Winamp + MAD file that I opened sounded fine, except for the loud background/hissing noise.

I could go on. But do you need to sleep just now?

[MIK3]

i can tell you one thing, thats a pretty beefy first post...as for the Winamp idea...stick w/ what ya got becuase ive heard that Winamp 3 isnt all that good...i believe there was a thread on this or a post or something like that...ill try to find it

[Omega]

Well, I'll see what I can do to help.

I have used Exact Audio Copy (EAC, like you discussed briefly) to rip CDs before. It was a while ago, but I remember the process vaguely. What I believe you'll need to do, is rip the CD to .wav files (this are going to be quite large...they're the .bmp equivilant for audio, if that means anything to you). You will then use a program to encode the .wav as an .mp3. I never got really involved in encoding, and actually only ripped one or two CDs ever, but I used a program called NexEncode. I believe I found it on Download.com, but now find no record of it there. It's possible you could find a program that would encode on-the-fly (meaning you wouldn't have to go CD->.wav->.mp3, you could just go CD->.mp3), but that's no guarantee. I think the encoding process is a pretty CPU-intensive process, so it may not work out very well to try ripping a CD directly to .mp3. (Download.com has an entire section of ripping/encoding software. I'd recommend sorting by downloads and get one of the more popular software titles.)

You noted a report that encoding to .mp3 wasn't the best way to get the best audio quality. This is true. MP3's are the equivilant to .jpg images (again, I'm making image type references...not sure if those mean anything to you). While I'm not 100% sure of the method MP3s use for compression, it is my belief that it uses fairly complex data algorithms to search for data strings it can "normalize" (aka, it changes them slightly so they'll fit into a pattern algorithm of some sort). The lower the bit-rate of the mp3, the smaller the file size, but the more the encoder will "normalize" the mp3. What this means for you is a less crisp sound, and high/low-frequency degredation/loss.

While CDs aren't recorded at 320 kilobit sound quality, it still makes some sense to encode/download mp3s at that quality, because it means a closer match to the original file.


If you're looking for an exact copy (no quality loss or changing of the audio), a .wav is the most literal copy available. It is literally every single bit of the sound clip manually specified (the frequency, wavelength, etc. for the audio to be produced). This is the same with a .bmp for images, where the file manually specifies the color for each pixel in the image.


I'm not sure what .mp3 pro files are so I can't really address that issue. I do, however know, that there is another compression format available that is the equivilant of a .png image. Monkey Audio's .ape files are theoretically an exact replica of the original source audio. What this means is that during encoding the file, it will still find ways to compress the file from its original, .wav format without changing the audio. The reduction in file size using this encoding method is significantly less than that available in .mp3 files, which is understandable (the .ape files will be larger than .mp3 files). I'm not sure offhand of the web site for this company, but just search Google and you shouldn't have a hard time finding it.


It's likely there are some issues in your post that I didn't address, so if you have any more specific questions, or things left unanswered, let's hear 'em. I hope this has helped somewhat. As a small disclaimer, I would by no means consider myself an expert on the topic of anything audio, so things that I "know" are not guaranteed to be factual.

I am certain I don't want to go the winamp 3 route. I've read around enough in the winamp forums to understand that it's essentially a whole new ballgame, which is fine. But that new ballgame comes with a whole slew of new bugs and issues, which I'm not too keen on dealing with now. I also see that Monkey's Audio doesn't have a plug-in for Winamp 3.

Yeah, I have no trouble with typing and using the English language. I just wish I could translate some of 'that' ability to computers etc.. I have been active in political discussion forums for years. Before I was on the internet, I was immersed in class politics, not in any formal way, but via self-education. And I had a hobby/ habit of writing letters to world and other leaders. When I had a girl type up my two volume book (which, as you may have guessed, isn't about cd burning) on her computer, with her word processor, I was awestruck. When I finally got my hands on one, I didn't ask anyone how to type. I just sat down and typed out my two volume book. Obviously, By the time that was done, I was quite acclimated to my keyboard.

Well, Omega, I appreciate the effort. Greatly. I've been experimenting today with a few progs that I downloaded. I think I'm fairly done for today. I'm simply pooped. (I'm drained a bit worrying about my job, which is shaky.)

I downloaded/ installed Audiograbber, which is supposed to save me from having to deal with ASPI issues, apparently. If I like it, I've got to cough up a few bucks for the full version. I also downloaded the free Lame mp3 encoder plug-in, and tried it. I guess it's okay. It's going to take me a while to figure out how to set all of the settings, although a lot of the documentation I've encountered is fairly helpful.

I'm having trouble understanding the 'normalization' button. Why would you 'normalize' a single file? When I normalized with Nero (which, I read, alters the file permanently, with good or not so good consequences), I simply hi-lited my chosen compilation, selected properties via right-clicking, selected filters and then selected normalize for the whole shebang. It still didn't do a great job of making the tracks equal in volume, mind you.

I also downloaded/ installed Monkey's Audio, and tried it. However, The prog wouldn't install the winamp plug-in that came with it. Therefore, While I was able to create an .ape file, I couldn't play it in my winamp. In fact, I just asked now for help (elsewhere) in figuring out why, since I have winamp 2.81, which is supposed to take the plug-in. Then I had a quick look around, which included looking into the settings of my winamp. I have all the file types selected, or I thought I did. I don't know. I also saw APE there. I made sure that 'all' the file types listed were selected before I exited, and then tried to play an ape file again. This time it played.

My next move, besides just getting familiar with all these new progs and their settings, is to determine whether I can have all of these audio files handily in my one Kazaa Lite 'Shared Folder', accessible for playing in winamp, and for both creating compilations out of them without regard for the various file types, and burning.

Now, If Monkey's Audio doesn't alter a file, and can be returned to it's original form, zip file-like, then how do I normalize ape files together with mp3 and wav files when I'm creating and burning compilations?

try Razor Lame for ripping audio CDs, first you rip the cd to wavs, then you encode to mp3

i find 128k mp3 quality is fine, its hard to tell the difference when going to higher qualities

[Omega]

RogueProtoKol: Although you may not be able to tell the difference, I most definately can. Granted, there are some songs where it probably doesn't make any real difference at all, but I definately can tell on many songs. As I noted before, lower bitrates are going to have the most noticable effect in high/low frequency degredation. Download "3 Doors Down - Kryptonite" at bitrates of 128 and 320, and listen to both carefully (headphones, if possible), and then tell me if you still can't tell a difference (I think this is a song where I recall it being particularily noticable).


Arby: I'm very impressed with your English, if by your comment you meant that it's a foreign language to you. Hell, I'm impressed with your english even if it's not a foreign language to you (hehe, you used the word "acclimated"). I'm sorry to hear about your employment situation, and I hope everything turns out alright.

On the subject of 'normalization,' I don't think I explained myself properly. I was simply using "normalization" as a rough description of how the mp3 encoding process works, rather than the feature in Nero of averaging track volume levels. I simply meant that the original mp3 sound levles may be from [9-8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1-0-1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9] (on the sound frequency spectrum), and the mp3 encoding process brings it down to [7-6-5-4-3-2-1-0-1-2-3-4-5-6-7] for compression purposes.

As far as burning .ape files to an audio CD, I'm not sure what to tell you. As best I can determine, there's no immediate way to do it (so you'd have to convert the .ape to .wav, or whatever prior to burning the CD. I don't see any reason why you wouldn't be able to have them in one "Kazaa Lite 'Shared Folder', accessible for playing in winamp," though. I keep my .ape files in the same directory as my .ape files without problem.

Nice job diagnosing and fixing your Winamp/APE problem, and best of luck with getting all of this figured out.

Thanks. English is my first and only language. I'd like to know more. But then, I'd like to know more about a lot of things. Don't have the time and energy and money to get much done. And now I'm getting older and the synapses aren't firing so fast.

'Acclimated', as in 'acclimated to my keyboard', above, is quite correct. I have a dictionary within reach which I consult regularly. The word popped into my head as I was doing up the above post, but I wasn't sure about it. So, before I hit the 'submit' button, I grabbed my dictionary and confirmed that I had the spelling right and was using the word the way it is supposed to be used.

That's a habit I got into long ago. I don't look up every word I'm not sure about. But I force myself to use do it 'sometimes'. If a thing, like communicating, is worth doing, then it's worth doing right. But I'm also someone who once had dreams of publishing a book. Therefore, the habit of polishing whatever I write before I present it is still with me.

Well, My learning's still got a long way to go with all of this file sharing and cd burning stuff. But I'm enjoying myself. It's also kind of nice to be able to bring others, who are even greener than myself, into the experience. I certainly feel inadequate when I see the exchanges taking place in forums like this. But then I talk to some folks who don't know what a hard drive is. But I'm real nice to them. They are going to get up to speed in no time. Then I'll want their help ;-)

Later...

Hi Arby,
Tried to read all of this thread , hadn't been here lately. But from what I understand you are looking for programs to rip CD's to .wav, .mp3, or whatever.
Here is a program I use, it is free and when I found and used it, I think I deleted all others. It will rip, convert mp3 to wav/wav to mp3 - record - lots of things. You should take a look at it and try it out.
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Cdex Ver 1.40
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Also as noted above, the 128 is pretty much the standard unless you have lots of hard drive capacity to use up quickly.

WITH EAC:

1) you need all these programs:

-EAC: http://studserver.uni-dortmund.de/~su0165/eac09b4.exe
-LAME: http://mitiok.free.fr/lame-3.92.zip
-ASPI: http://www.adaptec.com/worldwide/sup...=aspi_v471.exe (if this link doesnt display correctly, just copy=paste it in browser)

2)
-extract lame to aplace you will remeber( like c:\Program Files\LAME).
-extract the aspi layer in c:\adaptec\aspi ,then go to start,run... and type c:\adaptec\aspi\install.bat xp32 (type x86 instead of xp32 if you have win 98/me/2000) then reboot.

3)intall eac,then launch eac,the configuration wizard appears, click next, then make sure that your drives are checked(it will detect the features of your drives), click next until you get to the encoder configuration page.
Make sure the box before "Install and configure the external LAME.EXE configurator" is checked,then next,the use reccomended settings, then next, enter an email address( anything will do),then" I am a begginer" then finish.

4)
Now you select the drive which has the cd you want to encode.The tracks should appear.

to configure eac:
-go to: eac-eac options:
-extraction tab:
-check lock tray during extraction( it will lock the cdrom during extraction)
- put extraction priority to high and error recovery to high.
-general tab:
-should be checked: alternate extraction routine,show status.the others are your preferences.
-should be checked: use cd-text information and activate begginers mode.
-Normalize: At your preference
-Title tab
-Put this: (%N) %T - %A in naming scheme
-Leave the other tabs as they are.
-go to eac-drives options,the drive tab and autodetect read command,

5)extraction cd to wav
-to get the cd infromation, go to database-get cd information from-remote free cddb.
0click on the wav button on the left. Go to the folder where you want to put you music( create one if needed)*very important* dont change the"filenames will be ignored2 or it wont record.When in desired folder, click ok, it will start the process.

* if a track seems to take alot of time to process and the error correction leds flashes a lot,it means you have a scratch or other physical problem that cant be corrected by the sofware, just skip the track and go get it on kazaa( its legal since you own the cd )

6) wav-to-mp3

- Take the cd out of the cdrom.
-go to:tools-compress wavs...
Then select all the wavs you just made and click ok, then it will ask where to put the mp3, put them in the same folder,ok, the process should start.

Finaly, go delete the wav from the mp3 in the folder if didnt select the option in the program, and you have your high quality mp3s ready for listening!

MusicMatch does it all